| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12022 is a reply to message #12021] |
Mon, 28 September 2009 17:07   |
LesS
Messages: 478
Registered: December 2002
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It was a normal speaker jack.
It connected the external cabinet in parallel.
It did not disconnect the internal speakers.
Kustom quit putting the speaker jack on the combo approx May 1970 SN 54xxx - so the last K100 combos (right before they changed the combos from K100 to K150) had no speaker jack.
Some of the K100's with no speaker jack still had the hole drilled, though.
[Updated on: Mon, 28 September 2009 17:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12028 is a reply to message #12026] |
Mon, 28 September 2009 19:59 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Playing loud at this point is not my goal... In fact, I'm after the best sound I can get at low volumes. I want and need something that this amp can drive effertlessly at low output. Don't want to wake my wife while she's sleeping. If I do, I'll take a picture and show you what a guitar wrapped up along side someones head looks like. 
I wasn't worried about trying to replace with the same speakers. In fact, I don't want the same speakers. I want something that is fuller, something that has some meat behind it. I know this may sound strange, but here it goes... I like the idea behind the tone i get now. I like the highs and mids, but it just needs a fuller thicker sound.
I've been looking at the Eminence Ragin Cajun
http://www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=RAGI NCAJUN&speaker_size=10&SUB_CAT_ID=4
You are suggesting Jenson... Why is that?
AND, I'm still very interested in replacing old caps.
My amp : K100C-8
[Updated on: Mon, 28 September 2009 20:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12033 is a reply to message #12031] |
Mon, 28 September 2009 22:52 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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| LesS wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 12:21 |
Does it have two speakers? - if it does, the speakers were 8 ohms each wired in series for 16 ohms - unless someone has re-wired it.
If it has four speakers, then the net impedance is 8 ohms.
The output of the amplifier is 60 watts RMS at 8 ohms.
The minimum recommended speaker load is 8 ohms.
-Les S
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| LesS wrote on Mon, 28 September 2009 19:48 |
RickBlack,
Yours came with Eminence 8 ohm speakers (you can see in your picture that they are wired in series.)
If you play loud, you would proably want to buy 16 ohm speakers and wire them in parallel. (I would go this route, and I would probably get Jensens.)
If not, then two 8 ohm speakers wired in series would be fine.
-Les S.
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| pleat wrote on Mon, 28 September 2009 21:56 |
I also would suggest using Jensen speakers. The Eminence speakers you had a link to are only offered in 8 ohms. As you stated you want and need something that this amp can drive effertlessly at low output and the Jensen MOD speakers are ava. in either 8 or 16 ohms. I'd get the 16 ohms, wire them in parallel and you have a 8 ohm load to match the amp's output and since each speaker takes 50% of the rated 50 watts of power you can get speakers rated at 25 watts.
Don
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Les you suggest 8 ohms in series,
Don you 16 ohms in paralell.
What are the advantages and disadvantes of each?
My amp : K100C-8
[Updated on: Mon, 28 September 2009 22:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12040 is a reply to message #12033] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 06:45 |
pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
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Senior Member |
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Addressing a couple of issues. Kustom factory speaker charts only list 16 ohm speakers for the two speaker SC series wired in parallel with the exception of the 4x10 K100SC that used 8 ohm speakers wired in series/parallel. SC series amps are the self contained, amp and speakers in one cabinet.
If your amp has a speaker output jack on the back panel and it appears to factory wired, two things come to mind. One it was installed at the factory and installed 8 ohm speakers wired in series for 16 ohms to the amp, and with the added speaker jack on the back panel a second speaker cabinet. That might make sense for the 2x10 or 2x12 K100 amps, but the 4x10 K100 is running the 8 ohm total impedence for the head without being able to add more speakers.
I've owned 8 or 9 of the SC series amps in all speaker cofigurations and have never seen a speaker jack on the back panel. I've owned some where someone has removed the tape or monitor out jack wire, and soldered a wire from the jack to the speaker jack.
It's your amp, and you have many options for speaker brand replacements, but if it were my amp, I'd stay with 16 ohms wired in parallel.
Any chance you can post a photo of the power amp area and show the area where the speaker jack is on the back panel? That may show us if the speaker jack is from the factory or if someone added it before you got the amp.
Don
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12041 is a reply to message #12040] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 07:32 |
LesS
Messages: 478
Registered: December 2002
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Senior Member |
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Pleat,
The Kustom wiring chart showing two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel for the 2-10 SC was dated November 1971 – so it was referring to the K150 2x10 SC.
Kustom changed from the K100 to the K150 combos approx. July 1970 SN 57100.
The 8 ohms speakers and speaker jack applies to the K100 combos – I have verified this without exception by many units I have either owned or seen on ebay. The speaker jack was definitely factory (for example, placement of the jack for all examples I have seen was precise and consistent – not added on.)
See example – the lower jack partially hidden by the AC cord. When the K100 combo had two rear jacks, one was the reverb and the other was the speaker output jack.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34116766@N07/3965904496/
- - - -
Here is everything I know about this for the K100 and K150 models.
K100/K25 Combo era - Sept 1969 to June 1970 (starting with SN 444xx)
Kustom put two 16 ohm speakers in their K100 2x12 combo, as well as the K150 combo that came later.
But for their K100 2x10 combo they used 8 ohm speakers (CTS and Eminence) wired in series. I have seen many of these, and I have never seen a K100 2x10 with 16 ohm Eminence or CTS drivers.
Approx SN 53500 (approx 4/11/70) the stock speaker changed from Eminence drivers to CTS drivers for the K100C-8 2x10 and 4x10 combos. With the change to CTS speakers, the speaker bolt pattern became slightly larger. I do not have any records of the impedance when used in the K100 combos – these could be 16 ohm drivers – I just can’t verify that.
The early K100C-8’s seemed to have Eminence speakers, and the later ones CTS. But I owned a K100 C-8 SN 44985 production date September 29, 1969 that had two 8 ohm 10” CTS speakers wired in series.
Approx SN 51500 (approx. March 1970) Kustom stopped putting an external speaker jack on the K100 combo's (2x10, 4x10, etc.). This is probably because they were switching to the 16 ohm CTS speakers (8 ohms load per pair) soon and they did not customers to be able to run their Kustoms at loads below 8 ohms.
So, the question is - why did the K100 2x10 combos come with two 8 ohm speakers wired in series which caused the amp to only put out about 35 watts RMS?
Maybe the speakers were easier to obtain than 16 ohm speakers. Also the Eminence speakers were not high power, so maybe the 16 ohm load resulted in fewer blown drivers/warranty claims. (The later K150 2x10 combos came with more powerful 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel. The speakers were marked 16 ohms but could be the ones that Kustom had custom made at 12 ohms. The 12 ohm speaker would be a little better match for the K150 amp - some were rated to run at 6 ohms.)
K150/K50 Combo era - July 1970 to July 1971 (starting with SN 570xx)
With the combo change from K100 to K150 (approx July 1970) the 10 inch CTS driver is now 16 ohms.
I think the extra power of the K150 required stronger speakers that normally came in the K100 combos.
The Kustom wiring chart showing two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel for the 2-10 SC was dated November 1971 – so it was referring to the K150 2x10 SC.
Kustom changed from the K100 to the K150 combos approx. July 1970 SN 57100.
-Les S.
[Updated on: Tue, 29 September 2009 07:43] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12053 is a reply to message #12051] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 19:16 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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| LesS wrote on Tue, 29 September 2009 18:45 |
Since you wanted speakers with a fuller, thicker sound, between those two choices -I would go with the Ragin Cajun.
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Which means running 2 8ohms in series making the amp work harder than running 2 16ohms in parallel which allows the amp to run more efficiently correct?
I'd love to see the response curves of the existing drivers in it now.
My amp : K100C-8
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12054 is a reply to message #12052] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 19:19 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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| Jc wrote on Tue, 29 September 2009 18:51 |
Rick,
I know what ya mean about the Jensen Mods Don is talking about. I was having a hard time believing his praise for what I took as a 2nd tier product. When we all met down in Chanute this year, all the boys where hauling the big rigs with fancy speakers on stage and Don walks up with his single 12" jensen Mod and rips!
Great sound and Jensens liked the Kustom Electronic's with his pedals. That and the guy has some talent!
Don't dismiss them ~ Give it some thought.
jc
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I'd like to hear some sound clips. I've only found one and it was on the Jensen website and it was very difficult to come to any conclusion, the sound bite was not very good quality.
My amp : K100C-8
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12056 is a reply to message #12053] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 22:21 |
pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
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Senior Member |
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Rick, the K100 runs at full rated output on a 8 ohm total load. So you have options of getting two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel or get two 4 ohm speakers and wire them in series.
Looking a response curve is interesting. When Peavey first introduced the Black Widow speakers back in the 70's we compared them with the K series JBL. Everything was identical, magnet type, weight, voice coil diameter, edge wound aluminum ribbon, cast frames, aluminum dust caps, same depth of cone from front to spider, yet looking at the response chart, they were really close with the exception at 3k where the JBL had just over 3db rise, and that was all it took to get that JBL snap, the Black widows sounded dull next to the JBL. So you can look at charts, and it will tell you a lot, but hearing is still the best way to compare speakers. Tall order since most places to buy speakers don't have them in cabinets for comparision.
Don
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12057 is a reply to message #12056] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 22:28 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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Hey pleat..
I'm most likely going with 2 16ohms in parallel. As much as I want the ragin cajun with is a 8 ohm... I just like the idea of running the amp at it's full potiential.
How cool would it be to find a place where you could take your amp and have a field day trying different drivers?
My amp : K100C-8
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12059 is a reply to message #12057] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 22:40 |
pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
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Senior Member |
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Rick, those days are long gone. When I was in retail we had identical cabinets loaded with different brand speakers and we used a A B switcher to jump from one cabinet to the other using the same amp. It was a little easier back then, especially with kustom cabinets. We stocked pretty much all the different brand speakers kustom offered in their cabinets. So it was a level playing field to try brand speakers, same 2x15 cabinets, just different brand speakers. Back in the 60's, loud rockers all played through dual 15" cabinets. Today since guitars have shifted more to the 12 speakers, it would be difficult to have every brand of speakers in the same matching cabinets for trying out. For the last 11 years, my single 12" K50 is my main amp, and I've used it with JBL, EV, Celestion, and a Jensen, I've settled on the the Jensen. It sounds great for my ears, and I run a Roland GR33 synth pedal that gives me a B3 organ, brass, strings, steel drums and I loop that into a Digitech processor for the distortion, echo's, reverbs, flanger, chorus, etc and the amp and jensen just seem to work great, and I don't have the weight of a JBL or EV.
Don
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12060 is a reply to message #12057] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 22:46 |
LesS
Messages: 478
Registered: December 2002
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Senior Member |
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"LesS, all the charts I sent, the ones dated 11-71 don't give any impedence of the actual speakers, or what amp or cabinet models the speaker wiring diagram showed."
Pleat - it said "2-10SC 16 ohms per speaker 8 ohms per cabinet" and it referred to figure 10;
the page for figure 10 was dated 11-71.
So it seems to me this was referring to the K150 combo.
The 8 ohm speakers and speaker jack that I was talking about applies to the K100 combos which production ended about July 1970 SN 57100.
Anyone with a K100 2x10 combo with:
a) a SN before 53000
b) 2 jacks in back
c) preferably with Eminence speaker (hole in aluminum dust cap)
can easily prove this unless it has been modified
(that K100 2x10 combos before SN53000 usually had 8 ohm speakers, were wired in series, and had a speaker out jack).
[Updated on: Tue, 29 September 2009 22:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12064 is a reply to message #9794] |
Tue, 29 September 2009 23:34 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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Well, i have my images hosted up on my hotmail site, then I just link the image in using the little image icon in the tool bar.
Sure, I can take some more images. Give me 30~45 minutes to get my amp apart, take the pics, then get them posted
My amp : K100C-8
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12068 is a reply to message #12066] |
Wed, 30 September 2009 11:44 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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| stevem wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 06:18 |
1) the bias diode (little can with two clear heat shrinked leads) is out of its clip that is goes into in the center of the output transistor heat sink. This needs to be placed back in the clip with a dab of transistor heat sink grease and the clip need to grip it tight.
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Ok, I'll take a look at that tonight.
| stevem wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 06:18 |
2) right in front of that clip is the thermal circuit breaker( round black item with one lead tang broken off)this shuts the amp down in the event that it starts to run too hot, like when that bias diode goes bad or cant sence the heat sink temp.
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Yes I know... I'm the one that broke it. In fact, I made mention of it in another thread I think. It happen when i was trying to clean up all contacts with some contact cleaner a couple of weeks ago. I realzied it was a sensor and just taped the two wires back together. I DO agree, it needs to be fixed. In fact, I'm not sure if there is any harm being done. I did't expect there to be, none the less, I agree, needs to be replaced.
| stevem wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 06:18 |
That looks like a master volume control that some one put in on that channel. this will load down that channel and probibly drop off some high end . If you want to leave it in I can sen you some good wire to redo it with, as it looks like a mess now, or you can just cut it out and run that blue wire back to where it goes next to the other blue wire on that rear wall mounted driver board.
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I'm the one who put the master volume in. I did it last weekend. Right now, I've only got one side wired up. If looking at the amp, it's the right side channel. The left side channel has yet to be hooked up. I purchased the wrong kind of volume pot. I needed a duel pot so i can run both channels. I realized this after I took out the resistor for the left channel. At first, i was going to have separate volume pots, but decided against it, just don't want to have two separate pots. However, not having much luck finding a duel 50k pot.
Also, I agree that there is some excess wire in there. What I used was some high def coax. Rather beefy. I was going to use some normal shielded guitar speaker wire, but, it was suggested that I use coax.
Are you suggesting that I remove the coax and run the blue wire directly to the pot?
My amp : K100C-8
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12069 is a reply to message #12067] |
Wed, 30 September 2009 11:47 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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| pleat wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 09:09 |
I see from the photo's the same problems. I think I have a extra thermal circuit breaker I can send you. I've never seen one with the tab broken off, but anything is possible after 40 years.
LesS is right on the fact that the amp does have a factory speaker jack on the back panel. So the mystery continues on why kustom did these on some models and not others. I'm going to email Bud and see if there was a reason for the added speaker jack and series wiring on the K100-8 2x10 SC. Maybe there was some thought of making a matching 2x10 extension cabinet and they would wire the cabinet in series so when adding the extension cabinet it would give a 8 ohm load to the amp.
Don
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As mentioned to steve, I broke it. Sure, if you have one. I've not gone looking for a new one. I should... I also need to find a duel 50k pot to replace that single volume pot I put in place.
My amp : K100C-8
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12087 is a reply to message #12066] |
Sun, 04 October 2009 01:09 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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| stevem wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 06:18 |
From the pictures you put up I can see two problems with the amp.
1) the bias diode (little can with two clear heat shrinked leads) is out of its clip that is goes into in the center of the output transistor heat sink. This needs to be placed back in the clip with a dab of transistor heat sink grease and the clip need to grip it tight.
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Well, go figure. I broke the diode. I've done a little research on this. I found a thread on a forum here
http://www.electronicspoint.com/need-help-iding-component-pi c-t13955.html
Turns out that the what looks to be an I is actually the number 1 in front of that manufacturers part number. Also, that diode is no longer made anymore, that thread suggested going to this website and doing a cross reference. http://www.nteinc.com/
I did, and this is what I came up with
http://nte01.nteinc.com/nte/NTExRefSemiProd.nsf/69d5aa3584d0 15ce85256e780056e56f?CreateDocument
Do any of you see any harm is using this part?
The one thing that is going to be difficult for me is to determine which way the current is flowing so I know which way to put the diode in. If I'm looking at the top of the board, does the current flow from left to right or right to left?
Thanks all for any help!!!
Rick
My amp : K100C-8
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| Re: Looking for info on a Kustom K 100C-8 [message #12095 is a reply to message #9794] |
Sun, 04 October 2009 16:34 |
RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
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Senior Member |
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Did my research, got a new diode and got it fixed.
So far I've replaced all the electrolytic caps in the PC1400 pre-amp and the power amp... Now, I'm going to dive in and replace all the electrolytic caps in the PC1500 pre-amp.
My amp : K100C-8
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