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How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12180]

Sat, 10 October 2009 22:07

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

How many ohms can I run with my Frankenstein k200 head? -thekid

Rockin , Tuckin & Rollin!
Gold L795RV Frankie
2x15 JBL D130F Kustom cab
'86 Ibanez Roadstar II
'67 Crucianelli PANaramic Hollowbody
'82 Westone heelless set neck ThunderII
'70 Sekova double cutaway Hollowbody

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12183 is a reply to message #12180]

Sat, 10 October 2009 23:12

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

4 ohm total load.
pleat

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12187 is a reply to message #12180]

Sun, 11 October 2009 09:46

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

Thanks. I was mistaken ! It gets pretty hot when running it at 8 ohms, do you think 4 ohms would heat it up too much? It would blow the output fuse first I guess...

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12188 is a reply to message #12187]

Sun, 11 October 2009 11:28

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

You may have some other issues with the amp if it's running hot.
8 ohms will not cause it to heat up, running a 2 ohm load will make it run hot. You may want to have a tech go over the circuits and see if something has drifted in value over the years. One thing to keep in mind that I don't think most people think about, is looking inside the amp and see if any components have been changed out. After 40 years, a lot of work may have been done and substitute parts may have been installed. I just got a K100-1 head and found out it had a lot of parts replaced at some point before I got the amp. Someone had replaced two transistors and instead of un soldering the bad transistors, the tech cut off the transistor, left the leads and soldered a transisitor socket to the leads and then plugged in the new transistors, problem was, the socket was not making good contact. I had my tech remove the sockets and solder the parts direct like they should have been at the time of replacement. Works great now.
pleat

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12189 is a reply to message #12180]

Sun, 11 October 2009 11:30

stevem
Messages: 4775
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

The fuse should not blow if its the correct 5 amp fast blow type.
Fast blow types just have a thin spiral fuse eleement on the inside, slow blows have a small square section on one end of the inside.

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12190 is a reply to message #12189]

Sun, 11 October 2009 13:36

kustomoholic
Messages: 227
Registered: March 2009
Location: Tulsa,oklahoma

Senior Member

I agree with the others on the running hot issue... After 40 years who knows what's inside. If you are not comfortable with electronic service then find a good tech and see about getting that hot problem fixed ... if 8 ohms runs hot and it shouldn't then 4 could cause a failure and added expense to ultimately fix it. I am glad the the others verified the 4 ohm total load.
I was pretty sure of that since the catalogs showed pretty much a linear exhibition of use in the ads. Thanks for verifying that Pleat.. Hope you get everything in order.
Kraig Very Happy

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12196 is a reply to message #12180]

Mon, 12 October 2009 06:17

stevem
Messages: 4775
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

The speaker fuse is not the fuse that will protect the amp if it has a bias problem and is running too hot, the 3 amp on the input side of the power transformer is the one that will blow. The problem is most times tramsistors short out a faction of a second before that fuse can blow, so I would check to make sure it is a 3 amp fuse, in fact if you do not play the amp past half in volume level I would stick in a 2.5 amp fuse and that may hold fine for you.
If the amp is getting very hot to the touch in the back I would take it to a tech and get the bias of the output stage checked out. these amps unlike the latter ones do not have a thermal circuit breaker in the output stage, so they will just run hot untill and transistor pops or untill that prevously discused fuse blows!

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12214 is a reply to message #12196]

Thu, 15 October 2009 17:49

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

Okay, I might have been a little hasty when I said my amp ran "hot" at 8 ohms. It's not burn your hand hot, but after a good 10 minute blues jam, if I put my hand near the top behind the amp head I can feel some heat. My main reason for asking the ohms question was to make sure I was well within the heads limits if I run my 2x15 kustom cab with 2 16 ohm JBL D130-F's. They are wired together,input leads to one speaker,leads out of that speaker into the other. I beleive this is "series" wiring? I think that brings the cab to 8 ohms load. I think,from reading other posts, that Kustom did this to allow 2 of these cabs to be run by one k200 head and bring the total load to 4 ohms? (wouldnt that be somethin to hear? Shocked

) Correct me if I am wrong in any of this.....

P.S, I have been running a crappy Crate 4x12 during my search for the JBL Cab, and I have never turned the volume up past 6. I play mostly rhythm guitar and I cut through the mix just fine. So I think I will follow the advice of changing out the 3 amp fuse to a 2.5 quick burn type to ease my worried mind..

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12215 is a reply to message #12214]

Thu, 15 October 2009 18:00

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

Okay, I made a mistake, pretend that I said the cab was wired in parallel, cause it is. Rolling Eyes

I got it confused.

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12219 is a reply to message #12180]

Fri, 16 October 2009 06:01

stevem
Messages: 4775
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

I hope so, as two 16 ohms in serise for a 32 ohm total load would have the amp fighting just to put out 20 watts rms instead of its normal 60 watts.

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12228 is a reply to message #12214]

Sun, 18 October 2009 00:55

Shaun_Musings
Messages: 323
Registered: April 2009
Location: Reading, MA

Senior Member

Hey, where'd you get the K cab? I didn't see any mysteriously appear in the 5-min refresh rate I have for Mass craigslist =)

Getting the Charger Monday.
Daddy's Junky Music has a 2x15B I'm snagging.

Shaun

Born on the Baaaaayou (Ok, in Massachusetts)

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12231 is a reply to message #12228]

Sun, 18 October 2009 12:53

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

Friend of a friend sorta deal. I lucked out I guess! one of the speakers is blown though, so it needs a $175.00 rebuild kit *ouch*! but it will be sweet when its all done. The other one is fine, so thats a relief. 2 kits would be too much for me to handle. I will probably rebuild the speaker myself, as most speaker guys want 2 hundred and change to do it for me. We'll see how it goes.

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12234 is a reply to message #12231]

Sun, 18 October 2009 21:28

oren hudson
Messages: 274
Registered: March 2008
Location: Gastonia, NC

Senior Member

thekid wrote on Sun, 18 October 2009 12:53

I will probably rebuild the speaker myself, as most speaker guys want 2 hundred and change to do it for me.

WOW, your speaker guys must be plating them with gold. My guy at The Speaker Doctor in Charlotte runs way less than that. Or, Great Plains Audio does Altecs for about $120 and JBLs for even less using the correct brands "fixins." I've had good experiences with both. Cool

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12236 is a reply to message #12234]

Mon, 19 October 2009 00:09

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

The speaker guys I am talking to say the reason for the expensive rebuild on the JBL d130's is because JBL does NOT make the parts for it anymore and if you have a JBL tech repair it they will replace the parts with upgraded parts such as a cloth cone and non- aluminum voice coil thereby ruining the speaker's original sound and for all intents and purposes changing it from a d130 into a different speaker altogether. I have researched this myself and found the info on many sites validating this, so it's not like the guys are taking me for a ride. I did however find a guy on ebay (EX JBL tech) who will rebuild the speaker and ship it back to me for $170 bucks, I just have to ship the speaker to him , on my dime and he covers return shipping. So I am exploring that avenue as well. I figure though, a rebuild kit with doped paper cone and aluminum voice coil(period correct stuff) will run me $170 as well, and the experience could be a good one .... or a pathetic failure. Confused

I dunno, has anyone rebuilt one of these before? I may start a new post for that question....

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12237 is a reply to message #12236]

Mon, 19 October 2009 01:19

Jc
Messages: 217
Registered: March 2000
Location: N.W. Chicago Suburb

Senior Member

I agree that the 130 rebuild kits are no longer available. But at least $30 to ship and $170 for the recone.....I think that's way too high. Any reputable dealer in your area can do as good a job as the E-bay guy and at least you have some recourse being close to them. Before I'd jump on those recones - I'd give the gang here a chance to come up with people they have dealt with, I'll check my guy in the morning too.

jc

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12239 is a reply to message #12237]

Mon, 19 October 2009 08:10

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

thats good advice. I went down to the ONLY yes i said ONLY place within 60 miles, Charlies Music in Hyannis ,Mass that would perform(or so I thought) a speaker rebuild and they send em out, so I talked to their "guy" and He wants like 225!! I thought that was definately outrageous! So thats what Im lookin at currently, $170 at the minimum for the kit and doin it myself. I found a kit online sold by sound city music co. This kit was recommended by Harvey Gerst himself on one of the audiophile forums I searched up. at least it appeared to really be him, who knows, but this guy knew his stuff about these speakers. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12240 is a reply to message #12219]

Mon, 19 October 2009 09:02

C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...

Senior Member

The voice coils in most JBL 130 series speakers, D, K and E's are aluminum voice coils. The are interchangeable. The cone is lighter than a 140 and the aluminum VC is why a 130 has a frequency response up to 6000 Hz. The 140 with a copper VC only goes to 2500 Hz. Simply Speakers out of Florida will set you up with the parts to recone the speakers. Just call them and they can get you the parts, non JBL but very good. JBL used to supply a "Drop In" recone kit for dealers and authorized repair centers. Getting one required a good friend in the business. Music store lost thier franchises over buying recones kits from JBL and reselling them. Call Simply Speakers. The owners talk to you and will get you the parts for $69. Installing the parts requires a bit of finesse but take your time and it can be done. One word of caution though, you get 1 (one) chance. Epoxy is not reversable.
Conrad

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12241 is a reply to message #12240]

Mon, 19 October 2009 09:24

oren hudson
Messages: 274
Registered: March 2008
Location: Gastonia, NC

Senior Member

You owe it to yourself to check with Great Plains Audio. Call and talk to them. I'm a purist and they told me that they are former long time employees with Altec/Lansing, and bought ALL of the stock when they went out and they use all that as well as demagnetize/remagnetize the magnet. This is based upon what they told me, what was said about them on the Lansing forum, and the fact that my guy at the Speaker Doctor said the 3" aluminum dust covers, for Altecs, were hard to come by for him, but Great Plains said they had a bunch. Cool

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12254 is a reply to message #12241]

Mon, 19 October 2009 19:22

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

I've been using the Circuit Shop in Caledonia, MI and just had a pair of JBL D130F reconed for 210.00 Of course I dropped them off and picked them up. Their sitting in a Kustom 2x15 cabinet that belongs to my bass player and they sound great. Richie is a re coning wizard, 1-800-593-0869 I think before I tried to recone a speaker, I'd start with a cheap speaker rather than starting out with a expensive speaker. The just got done reconing a pair of CTS 15" speakers and installed the JBL dust cap for 133.00 for the pair.
Best of luck and let us know how the speakers turn out.

pleat

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12255 is a reply to message #12180]

Mon, 19 October 2009 20:03

kustomoholic
Messages: 227
Registered: March 2009
Location: Tulsa,oklahoma

Senior Member

There is a place called Speakerworks here in Tulsa Oklahoma that does this kind of stuff....I haven't had any musical instrument speakers done by him. 918-664-6299. He did my JBL L-150 surrounds for 125 for all 4 drivers... I recently had him quote me 65 on some CTS 12" recones but I found a chewed up cab with 4 good ones for 40 so that was a no brainer.... My L150's sound fabulous and at 2 and a half years they have provided countless hours of quality sound... He does a lot of musical instrument stuff and has a good reputation in the area..
Craig

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12257 is a reply to message #12255]

Mon, 19 October 2009 20:49

thekid
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Junior Member

Thanks for all the info guys! I love this site! Cant say enough about the value of a site like this to someone like me. Ill keep you all posted on the project, as of now, I am leaning toward the Simply Speakers option right now, for cost reasons and because I have always liked to do it myself when possible, but I am not rushing in and am considering all options.

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Re: How Many ohms for a Frankie head? [message #12258 is a reply to message #12257]

Mon, 19 October 2009 21:31

LesS
Messages: 478
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

A really good reconer in Danbury, Connecticut, is Dusty's Speaker Reconing.
His ebay name is dustysamps .

I bought an incredible pair of reconed 1963 C12R’s from him.
His price is lower than most, his shipping is at actual cost, he stands behind his work, he has money back guarantee, and he ships fast.

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