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why two channels? [message #22828]

Sat, 02 May 2015 22:55

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

the two channels in a kustom are ridiculously useful in a lot of ways...
one of my fav tricks is to do the following... plug your guitar into the low z input of the reverb channel, take the high input and patch a cord to a fuzzbox or whatever, then patch that into the other channel's low input (or high, if you prefer)... then you can dial in how much fuzz you have and make your vintage kustom come to life in a more modern context.

a lot of peeps think the channels were for different instruments etc, but i think bud ross made them like this so you could blend in whatever you like.

i mean... to hear a nice cleanish kustom with that vibratto going and too much reverb, with a fuzz in the other side feeding my echoplex is damn near enough to make some tumescent. Wink

Wink

AND ya got one more input jack to play with... and you can use it to jump to another amp. it's pretty hip.

sorry if this suggestion seems sophomoric, but i meet a lot of younger peeps that have no idea you can do stuff like this. Wink

Wink

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Re: why two channels? [message #22831 is a reply to message #22828]

Sun, 03 May 2015 06:29

stevem
Messages: 4774
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

On all of the plexi face other than the first K200 series amps the inputs on each channel are a different level of brite ness, once the metal face K150 and K250 amps came to be the inputs on each channel became number 1 normal,and number 2 is 3 DB down .

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Re: why two channels? [message #22834 is a reply to message #22828]

Sun, 03 May 2015 10:39

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

true, it definitely sounds differently depending on which input you use.
personally, i prefer the old chanute era plexi's myself. Wink

Wink

but you can exploit that creatively Wink

Wink

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Re: why two channels? [message #22840 is a reply to message #22828]

Sun, 03 May 2015 13:48

chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

I know I've posted this before a long time ago, but here's a simple trick for any amp that has vibrato. Do as Jimi suggested and plug into either channel and then take a second cord from the bright input to the second channel input.

Now mix both channels one straight and one with vibrato and you have instant chorus effect.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22844 is a reply to message #22828]

Sun, 03 May 2015 22:29

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

indeed, that kustom "vibrato"is the most natural sounding chorus too.. really (i hate this term, but) organic.
blending in a fuzz in parallel is a great way to do it too. you can get really tubey sounds that way. i haven't looked really, but i imagine the channels are in phase with each other, unlike a fender.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22861 is a reply to message #22844]

Mon, 04 May 2015 17:46

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

I'm old enough to remember when two instruments would be plugged into one amp. When I was in high school, a lot of musicians would pool their money to buy a large amp, then maybe the lead and rhythm player would use the one amp until they could afford a second amp. It was pretty common place to see the bass player and rhythm player using the same amp in country bands back in the 60's.
pleat

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Re: why two channels? [message #22864 is a reply to message #22861]

Mon, 04 May 2015 18:22

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

Unfortunately Pleat, we learned the hard way. Running a bass thru the same amp as the guitar player.....and it was not a bass amp.........after a short time ruined the speakers. Since no one after that would let him piggy back on to the other amps our bass player got pissed and went out and bought the first Vox Super Beatle that our band later all bought. He really showed us up in a "BIG" way. lol

[Updated on: Mon, 04 May 2015 18:26]

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Re: why two channels? [message #22867 is a reply to message #22828]

Mon, 04 May 2015 20:58

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

i was lucky, my first amp was a 30-ish watt kay 708 galaxie. i ran that thru two 12" jbls until it let the magic smoke out.

my first REAL amp i ever bought tho was a 3rd or 4th hand black 4x10 k `150 combo. that thing with a big muff pedal and an mxr flanger was pretty freakin amazing for it's time.

i'm really psyched that i can rebuild this one. i love old kustoms.
i adapted the harmonic clipper circuit into a fuzzerdrive with very little to do with the original circuit, but half way up it pretty much nails that suzy q sound so that's what i named it. it's been on my live board now for the last couple years, i use it as a front end of every amp i play thru and it sounds great. the circuit's on google. built one for my bud dickie wagner a couple years before he died, too. he seemed to dig it.

to me tho, it's all about the interaction of them two channels, the proper fuzz and the right amount of vibrato going.. the trem isn't as good as the vibrato to my ear. it really sweetens it up.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22939 is a reply to message #22834]

Thu, 21 May 2015 08:05

mellotrondon
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2015
Location: Suburban Detroit

Junior Member

I use a 2 channel Kustom III Lead SC amp for acoustic bass and electric guitar. I modified it for bass by installing two 3" duct tubes in the front baffle board and bolting on a solid sealed back panel. I installed some MCM heavy duty sound reinforcement woofers with 35Hz resonant frequency to compensate a bit for the small size of the cabinet. I also get a good 12 string Rhythm guitar sound with my Ric. Sure, I have a big solid state SVT rig for concert stages and large outdoor venues, but you can only use so much volume with an acoustic string bass, and the Lead SC at 130 watts RMS gives me plenty in clubs to hover just below the microphonic feedback level so any more would be a waste of weight and power for this application. I can carry the thing around by myself.

Since my pickup system consists of two contact mics., the advantages of being able to independently equalize each feed becomes obvious. The contact mics putout a low level signal so I run each one through a 7 Band Graphic EQ pedal - a special BOSS BASS Frequency EQ for the bass-bar side on the instrument (to make up for the lack of ultra-low controls on the amp) and a garden variety full-range 7 Band pedal for the sound post (treble side) mic. Since the output of the mics. is so low, without benefit of the boost from it's EQ pedal, each mic. is effectively muted. I can therefore choose which pickup I play (or both) by just tapping the foot switches.

[Updated on: Thu, 21 May 2015 09:01]

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Re: why two channels? [message #22940 is a reply to message #22939]

Thu, 21 May 2015 10:11

mellotrondon
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2015
Location: Suburban Detroit

Junior Member

Pleat may be referring to guitar players sharing an open back 4-10 Fender Bassman (yech!) or maybe an Ampeg b-15-n with a guitar player in the second channel, which is alright - if the volume is kept reasonable and the amp has a JBL 140 or Altec 421 replacement speaker. I remember trying to play bass through an open-back Ampeg Gemini VI and the CTS 15" speaker in there didn't last very long. My current Kustom III Lead SC sounded like hell open back, even with two Peavey Black Widow 12"s in it, which is why I got some lighter-weight woofers and sealed up the back. I used Pringles potato chip tubes cut down to 5 inches long for front panel port ducts to tune to the box to my new speakers, by the way.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22942 is a reply to message #22940]

Thu, 21 May 2015 12:31

chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Welcome to the place mellotron!

Your post also brings up another point about two channel amps, stereo guitars like your Rick. Set up one channel with a great neck pickup tone and the other channel for a great bridge pickup tone.

I once saw a guy playing a Gibson ES-355 stereo with the neck pickup going through a chorus pedal and the bridge pickup going through a fuzz. He could get some interesting sounds with that set-up.

I use a two channel amp with my Guitorgan, organ through a Leslie simulator and the guitar through a multi-effect box, each into a separate channel.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22944 is a reply to message #22942]

Thu, 21 May 2015 18:02

mellotrondon
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2015
Location: Suburban Detroit

Junior Member

I mostly use use my small Kustom for stereo string bass but sometimes play the Ric 360/12 or a Ric 4003 stereo bass through it (since it's all set up for it anyway) but the steel strings on the bass guitar put out a lot more punishment than the gut-bucket so I have to watch my low-end boost when I run the stereo bass guitar signal.

My Kustom is actually a Frankenstein of sorts because it is a K III Lead SC chassis in a black tuck'n'roll K150-7 twin twelve cabinet. The width fit was half an inch from perfect and the height difference was made up for by a vinyl covered 3/4" piece of firring strip propping the front of the chassis from the bottom. Of course I had to bolt extra cleats to the bottom and inside the bottom of the chassis compartment every four inches to add the extra support I needed to keep the sealed back from vibrating and that worked out just fine. This was a fortunate thing for me since I had the cabinet laying around since I built a 2-15" upright combo amp cabinet for a bassist many years ago. I used to have the Lead SC in it's original non-padded cabinet but used it as a combination piano amp/piano bench and was certainly glad to change over to a padded seat. I must agree however that I miss the true vibrato effect of the earlier models.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22945 is a reply to message #22944]

Thu, 21 May 2015 18:37

mellotrondon
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2015
Location: Suburban Detroit

Junior Member

I just remembered a trick I did to a 250 Aluminum-face lead amp. The amp has a three band mid-range boost rotary switch and a mid band sweep knob. If the sweep knob is turned to full and then the three wires from it are jacked out the back of the amp by way of a stereo (3 conductor) phone plug, this can go to a regular volume control pedal pot and behold - you now have a pretty good wah-wah. This works best in the middle-range (second position) setting of the bandswitch IMHO. You have to have the switch in one position or the other anyway (if I remember correctly it's always in the circuit since there is no off and on means to bypass it,) so you will the knob in some position to get the tone you want, and you can just leave the floor treadle at home in that position until you go to wah. If I'm not mistaken I also did this monkey business on a K-600 PA head with similar good results. In that case, I forget which band of the EQ I jacked out, but it was in the upper midrange.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22946 is a reply to message #22945]

Thu, 21 May 2015 22:02

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

mellotrondon wrote on Thu, 21 May 2015 18:37

I just remembered a trick I did to a 250 Aluminum-face lead amp. The amp has a three band mid-range boost rotary switch and a mid band sweep knob. If the sweep knob is turned to full and then the three wires from it are jacked out the back of the amp by way of a stereo (3 conductor) phone plug, this can go to a regular volume control pedal pot and behold - you now have a pretty good wah-wah. This works best in the middle-range (second position) setting of the bandswitch IMHO. You have to have the switch in one position or the other anyway (if I remember correctly it's always in the circuit since there is no off and on means to bypass it,) so you will the knob in some position to get the tone you want, and you can just leave the floor treadle at home in that position until you go to wah. If I'm not mistaken I also did this monkey business on a K-600 PA head with similar good results. In that case, I forget which band of the EQ I jacked out, but it was in the upper midrange.

i like the way your mind works. Wink

Wink

pretty sure you could use a no load pot (or roll your own) so at the extreme top of the expression pedal (or the bottom, depending where ya cut the track)it would be effectively bypassed. then you could set the midrange boost to where ever ya like it on the amp with the knobs and when the pedal is fully toe down the knobs on the amp will be at whatever setting you chose, and rocking back will bring in the pedal in parallel with it and allow you to sweep the filter still.
if you use a switching jack you can wire it so when the pedal isn't plugged in, the amp is wired normally but when ya plug the pedal in it switches to the pot in the pedal. i did this with my causality 4 phaser build and in bypass the phase is set to whatever the knobs are... click a switch (or do the no-load thing) and you can sweep your phaser from mild stun to overkill, its kinda cool.

you can get the right kind of jack at taydaelectronics.com i use these, you wanna insulate the jack from the chassis and float the ground, these are plastic jacks with three switches built in, and pretty durable:

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/hardware/6-35mm-1-4-plugs-ja cks/6-35mm-1-4-stereo-insulated-switched-socket-jack-solder- lugs.html

love reading how you guys do things. that midrange sweep trick is hip Wink

Wink

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Re: why two channels? [message #22947 is a reply to message #22946]

Thu, 21 May 2015 22:22

mellotrondon
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2015
Location: Suburban Detroit

Junior Member

I forget whether I used a switching stereo headphone type jack or not. I'm pretty sure it was an all plastic Clifi jack like they use on the newer Marshalls. For the guys that have the old true vibrato amps though, the speed control pot could be rigged so that it runs on the foot treadle to create a nice winding up and down leslie rotor. For some reason the Roto-Vibe gets it wrong and varies the intensity rather than the speed of the rotary effect by the foot treadle. Since I don't have vibrato on my amp I intend to mount a cheap chorus pedal circuit board in a big DeArmond volume control pedal case and make just such a "helicopter" in the next month or so. I can get a four knob chorus pedal for $39.00 from MCM electronics. Just the momentary SPST off and on and the speed pot on the chorus circuit board need to be replaced and rewired. The other knobs can probably stay right where they are and come out under the big chrome treadle plate without any danger of getting mashed. I have a Leslie 925 sitting in my living room, but it would take one helluva high dollar gig to persuade my to haul that thing down out of my apartment building stairs to play.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22948 is a reply to message #22828]

Thu, 21 May 2015 22:29

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

i don't miss moving my leslies or my marshalls at ALL.

if ya wanna make a univibe in a crybaby kinda deal easy and cheap, the danelectro cool cat vibe is killer and with a little modification will fit in a crybaby shell, my friend mike did one with fantastic results. it sounds better than my univibe does. i think he has maybe 50 bux into it.

i agree, the rotovibe blew it. actually, the dunlop univibe blows it too, it doesn't have the range of a verberola or reslietone. the verberola was HIP. you could get it going so fast it sounds like skeeters buzzing thru your chromastones.
Wink

Wink

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Re: why two channels? [message #22949 is a reply to message #22948]

Fri, 22 May 2015 01:48

mellotrondon
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2015
Location: Suburban Detroit

Junior Member

I looked for some Cool Cat Chorus pedals and saw they were discontinued, but some new stock was still available for $56.00 or so but a Danelectro plastic-cased chorus was going for $15.00 believe it or not, and had all good ratings so I bought one. I'll keep you posted on my progress building the "helicopter" as soon as I get the Danelectro "D5 Fab Chorus" and have a chance to play with it.

Some people giving reviews stated that it was as good as a lot of $60-$80 pedals and for a fairly "dorky effect" (they called it!) why bother spending a lot of money? The only reason why chorus might be perceived as boring or over-used is because as stock pedals simply turn on or off - there is nothing dynamic about the effect - no suspense of the speeding and slowing under the control of the player or the low speed drag of an idling rotor.

I have a good feeling about this chorus pedal. It has three knobs and both jacks coming out the front. The jacks look like they sit below the main board but on my pedal housing they'll come out the sides.

[Updated on: Fri, 22 May 2015 01:55]

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Re: why two channels? [message #22950 is a reply to message #22949]

Fri, 22 May 2015 12:12

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

kill the dry signal in a chorus of flanger, and you have a vibe.
the chorus effect from dano, the mini one? they clip the input if you have hot pickups.
if it's the cool cat series of plastic ones, you may be able to do it. but it won't really do the univbe thing very well. univibes are phasers, not chorus.
but hey, if it makes your trousers too tight, ya know ya got it right Wink

Wink

you can usually pick up the dano cool cats used for 20 or 30 bux on evilbay

look forward to the results of your experiment! Wink

Wink

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Re: why two channels? [message #22951 is a reply to message #22950]

Fri, 22 May 2015 12:28

mellotrondon
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2015
Location: Suburban Detroit

Junior Member

My whole idea is an effective Leslie simulator. That's why the chorus is my effect of choice. I have a Leslie simulator with rotor brake as well as the B3 chorus vibratos built into the Hammond XK3c/3 that I normally use with the big SVT-CS800 tri-amped system, but I want a Leslie pedal for guitar and also for any organ effects I may use on the Casio Workstation which is my second live keyboard. I'll usually be using it with a Jaguar or the Ric 12 or my other Murph 12 string, so I'm not really worried about pickup overload. If I use my Tri-OD to boost the guitar output signal for a bit of edge, it will be after the chorus pedal in the signal chain.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22952 is a reply to message #22951]

Fri, 22 May 2015 13:15

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

mellotrondon wrote on Fri, 22 May 2015 12:28

My whole idea is an effective Leslie simulator. That's why the chorus is my effect of choice. I have a Leslie simulator with rotor brake as well as the B3 chorus vibratos built into the Hammond XK3c/3 that I normally use with the big SVT-CS800 tri-amped system, but I want a Leslie pedal for guitar and also for any organ effects I may use on the Casio Workstation which is my second live keyboard. I'll usually be using it with a Jaguar or the Ric 12 or my other Murph 12 string, so I'm not really worried about pickup overload. If I use my Tri-OD to boost the guitar output signal for a bit of edge, it will be after the chorus pedal in the signal chain.

right on, pink approves hardcore with modulation before overdrive!! i love a phaser first after my first fuzzface... face has to be first for my particular style. but man... anytime you make the swirly stuff distorted, it opens up whole other worlds of harmonics. love it.

i'm still not sure which chorus you have... if it IS the mini, even lower gain pickups seem to make a "click" on the attack so ya may wanna consider adding a really small resistance in line with the input signal to pad it down just a touch. i'm no mathmagician, so i'd have to experiment, but i bet anywhere from 10 to 100k should work without disturbing the tone or the volume too much.

but it could be a fluke, the ones i had all seemed to do that. i like paf's, so usually never more than 8 or 9 k... too hot and it gets too muddy. well, for me at least. i'm one of them weirdos that turns off most of the bass and cranks the amp a bit harder. Wink

Wink

but with distortion after it, it may well mask that click when you play something dynamic. playing soft it seems fine.

you know you got it when it makes ya feel good Wink

Wink

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Re: why two channels? [message #22953 is a reply to message #22828]

Fri, 22 May 2015 13:20

chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

I've got a Polytone Leslie simulator pedal. Sounds pretty good and it has a built in ramp up and down speed control, so it sounds like the rotor is changing speeds slowly not jumping from fast to slow.

Unfortunately I removed the foot pedal from my old Univibe and mounted the control on the panel. Thought that it worked better that way as a Chorus. Hey, it was the '70s. It was just an old effects box.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22954 is a reply to message #22953]

Fri, 22 May 2015 14:06

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

chicagobill wrote on Fri, 22 May 2015 13:20

I've got a Polytone Leslie simulator pedal. Sounds pretty good and it has a built in ramp up and down speed control, so it sounds like the rotor is changing speeds slowly not jumping from fast to slow.

Unfortunately I removed the foot pedal from my old Univibe and mounted the control on the panel. Thought that it worked better that way as a Chorus. Hey, it was the '70s. It was just an old effects box.

i hear you. when i think of some of the stuff that fell to..... ummm... "experimentation".. (hey beavis, uh huh huh, watch what happens when ya stick a 6550 and a 6v6 in a supro sportman,, huh huh heh heh)

hell of a light show. Wink

Wink

twasn't i that let that magick smoke out, but i kinda knew it wasn't gonna be a great idea...

live ya learn. i see boxes i had as a kid going for thousands of bucks. <smh>

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Re: why two channels? [message #22975 is a reply to message #22828]

Mon, 25 May 2015 19:12

FatalityX
Messages: 4
Registered: July 2014
Location: Caracas

Junior Member

I saw once some people playing on a k150-2, but I didn't noticed the tone differences.

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Re: why two channels? [message #22979 is a reply to message #22828]

Tue, 26 May 2015 00:03

pinkjimiphoton
Messages: 45
Registered: May 2015
Location: the dark side of the moon

Member

the 150 pumps about the same level as a fender twin reverb, but it stays tight at higher volumes. kinda ugly at clipping , but to reproduce your sound and your effects, they're hard to beat.

i had a kid over my house, maybe 23 or so the other day, i had to fix his amp for him. he wanted to try one of my firebirds so i plugged him in my kustom.
he sneered, oh mman, don't ya have something better i can play thru?

i'm like, shut the f@N< up and play your guitar.... put him into a dynacomp feeding a 12 stage phaser with remote speed control and then ran that into an old roland rack preamp. gl50 line driver maybe? i forget.
ran the roland to both sides of the kustom, dialed it in, then jumped one side to my echoplex into one channel of an old shin ei tuck n roll aand the other to it's reverb tremolo side.

kid just about freaked when he heard it. he's a believer now Wink

Wink

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