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Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10558]

Fri, 27 February 2009 20:59

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

Does anyone have information on these speakers. I just bought them, they were used in an Elks Lodge for many years. There are 6x8" speakers at 16 ohms per cab. I need to know what the wattage rating is per speaker cab. I want to run them with a new Yamaha PA system (300 watts) or maybe as an extension cab for my 60 watt marshall tube amp. Anyone know what year they were produced or what PA head they came with? Here is the info on the back of the speakers...

5808322
137 7106 or 7118
038-0012-00

These columns sound great, but I have not pushed them yet. I have a feeling that when I push them a real nice vintage sound will be produced. Any suggestions for replacement speakers, if I don't like the sound?

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10567 is a reply to message #10558]

Mon, 02 March 2009 12:27

stevem
Messages: 4775
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

If this is a tuck & roll cabinet then the only column kustom ever made with 6 speakers was a PA monitor with a 100 watt built in amp and 3-8" speakers and 2-10" speakers in each column.
According to the info you gave they where made in 1971, do these have a built in amp?

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10568 is a reply to message #10567]

Mon, 02 March 2009 12:58

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

I've seen these cabs you are talking about. But those are not mine. There is no built in amp. I'd like to post some pics, but do not know how...any input???

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10569 is a reply to message #10558]

Mon, 02 March 2009 13:20

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Kustom did offer a PA cabinet with 6 8" speakers in a column. If you look at the 1970 price list on this site, the 600 series pa offered the 600 PA head with 24-8" speakers in 4 columns. I wonder how many of those columns were actually made. I would tend to think with the 600 head, most bands would want the 2x15 cabinets with the horns.
pleat

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10570 is a reply to message #10569]

Mon, 02 March 2009 13:34

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

So you think they are 600 watt? I also noticed that there were 6x8" columns made for a 300 watt head. You are right there were probably not many made in that configuration. Looks like I may have picked-up only part of a speaker configuration...

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10573 is a reply to message #10570]

Mon, 02 March 2009 14:30

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

You have to keep in mind that Kustom power ratings were peak power. So a K300 amp is really 150 watts RMS. From the kustom chart I have the columns you have are 6.5 ohms each. So that would give you a 3.5 ohm total load to an amp. With the two columns you have, I'd say that they would handle 75 watts each. Figuring that two columns with the six speakers in each, you have 12 speakers and each speaker would be responsible for 8.5 percent of the total load. With that many speakers in operation, you still have to consider that they were designed for voice. With a guitar, you can get lower frequencys, and may blow the little speakers. I were to use the columns for guitar, I would make a new baffle board with cut out's for a 4x12 configuration and load them with guitar speakers. 8 ohm speakers wired in series and parallel will give you a 8 ohm cabinet. Do both cabinets in that configuration and you would have two 4x12 cabinets and a 4 ohm total load to the amp. That would rock, and look really kool.
pleat

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10575 is a reply to message #10573]

Mon, 02 March 2009 14:47

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

Sorry about my previous comment...it was not very clear...but each speaker is stamped 16 ohm...I assume the cab is wired so that it is 16 ohm.

I really want to use them with our current PA system. It is a 300 watt Yamaha head. Do you think I would blow the speakers with that head?

[Updated on: Mon, 02 March 2009 15:39]

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10577 is a reply to message #10558]

Mon, 02 March 2009 16:37

stevem
Messages: 4775
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

You may blow the head if the impeadance load it too low!

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10579 is a reply to message #10558]

Mon, 02 March 2009 17:01

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

I rechecked some things and found out that kustom didn't offer that 6-8" speaker cabinet for very long. It was gone by the 72 price list on this site. The 1970 price list shows the cabinet with The K300 and the K600 PA heads. It was the only column Kustom offered, the other PA cabinets jumped right up to the 2x15 horn cabinets with options for upgrades in brand of speakers. By 1972 Kustom offered a 302/602 column and contailed three 8" and two 12" speakers. So with all that, my impedance chart shows 302/602 part number 038-0012-00 using 12 ohm speakers wired in series-parallel for a 6.5 ohm load for the cabinet. Since Kustom didn't state in their speaker chart the 6x8" columns and if your cabinet is original and the speaker jack plate states 16 ohms, then I guess I'd believe the jack plate. You would have a 8 ohm total load to an amplifier using both columns. Not knowing if your going to use the columns with the Yamaha powered mixer just for vocals or intending to mic some amps or drums, I wouldn't suggest mic'ing any amps or drums with the columns. Vocals only, would what I would suggest. Since you don't know how hard the speakers may have been driven in the past, they may sound great with vocals at low to medium volumes and get them on a gig and have them fail. Hope this helps
pleat

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10582 is a reply to message #10579]

Mon, 02 March 2009 17:48

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

Thanks...

I only plan to use the columns for vocals, we also have additional Yamaha speakers 1x12" with horns for highs and lows. I am mainly looking for a mid boost with these Kustom Columns. Also they look really cool and would add to our stage visuals.

As an aside, the jack plate does not state 16 ohms. There is nothing on the jack plates except a serial number. I am sure these are original. The wiring scheme is also original. I only assumed these were 16 ohm cabs based on the stamp at the back of each speaker. Although I am not sure how these are wired, in series or parallel. From you previous statement it looks like your chart says they were wired in series, which would make them 16 ohms and used as two columns in parallel would require 8 ohm impedence from the PA head. I think that is acheivable.

My main worry was the wattage. But if they were used with a 600 watt head in 1970, they should be able to handle 300 watts RMS...does this sound right???

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10587 is a reply to message #10558]

Tue, 03 March 2009 09:55

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Ok, The kustom speaker chart did show the same part number for the Kasino Concert PA speaker, and it used 12 ohm speakers that are wired in series and parallel to get the total cabinet to 6 ohms. Figure 3 on my chart shows 6 speakers wired in series and parallel, so I'd say you have two 6 ohm cabinets for sure.
If you run both cabinets to one amp you will have 3 ohms to the amp. If your Yamaha mixer has two power amps and if your two other yamaha cabinets are 8 ohm each, I'd run both kustom columns on one side of the yamaha and the two yamaha cabinets on the other side of the yamaha. That will get you 3 ohms on one amp and 4 ohms on the other amp. This is assuming that the Yamaha mixer has two amps and they recomend a 4 ohm load per amp. If the amp has only one amp, then you will have to find another power amp to drive the two additional cabinets or columns. The K150, K250, K300, and K600 series amps produce their rated output at a 3-4 ohm total load. The older K400 amps and the the K600 amps used two power amps housed in one cabinet and had 4 speaker jacks, two for each amp, so a K300 was offered with one amp and two cabinets, and the K600 was offered with two amps and 4 cabinets to keep the load impedance of the amps stable. With that in mind, remember the amp(S) in both units were a 130 Watt RMS amp to drive 2 speaker cabinets, and the K600 used two power amps to drive 4 cabinets.
pleat

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10590 is a reply to message #10587]

Tue, 03 March 2009 12:51

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

Wow, this is great info..."you da man"...

This helps alot...the Yamaha amp does have two power amps. So it looks like the impedance load is ok. The speakers are designed for 130 watts rms, the amp is 300 watts but I not sure if that is max or rms...I'll check...do you think the speakers would be able to take 300 watts rms without blowing?

Thanks again, you've been a great help...

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10593 is a reply to message #10590]

Tue, 03 March 2009 21:23

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Hey it's all in good fun talking Kustoms. You will want to check the yamaha mixer and see if it is 300 watts RMS per amp or 300 watts RMS total. 150 x 150 for the 300 watt rating. My guess is it is 150 per side. Manufactures like to boast on how much power their amp will produce so I think 300 would be the combined total. I'd hook them all up and just keep the volume a little less on the amp that is driving the Kustoms until you see how they perform. Keep us posted.
pleat

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10594 is a reply to message #10593]

Tue, 03 March 2009 22:23

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

I'll be trying them in the next couple days. I'll get back to ya.

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10595 is a reply to message #10594]

Wed, 04 March 2009 09:21

C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...

Senior Member

When running music power through speakers, typically the rms power of an amp can be equal or greater than the peak power of a speaker. I routinely run amps that are 2X the speaker rating. And that depends if the frequencies are lows mids or highs. After a certain frequency, the excursion of a speaker is reduced and the mechanical throw of that speaker is not in jeopardy. Then it becomes the duty cycle of the power input to the speakers. Little bursts like vocals allow the voice coils to cool and the possibility of burn out is reduced.
Conrad

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10596 is a reply to message #10595]

Wed, 04 March 2009 13:02

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

Thanks. It took me a few times to read through that explanation before I fully understood it...but I got it and really helps alot. I am going to do a dry run with the PA tonight and if all looks good they will be added to our show tomorrow night.

I'll keep you posted as to how they sound...

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Re: Vintage 6x8" tuck and roll column specs??? Anyone??? [message #10640 is a reply to message #10558]

Fri, 20 March 2009 19:35

kustomcolumns
Messages: 9
Registered: February 2009

Junior Member

Just wanted to give everyone an update...

The columns were used the past few weeks at bar gigs and they have performed admirably. Lots of people commented on the vintage clarity of the sound and of course the great tuck-n-roll looks.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their input. It really helped.

Thanks,
Chris

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