| K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5972] |
Fri, 22 July 2005 19:46  |
dkerwood
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2005
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Junior Member |
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My sister has been looking for a Kustom bass amp for months now. We finally walked into our local "used" shop, and low and behold, a Kustom! It was a K200 PA head with 2 Kustom 4x10 cabinets. Unfortunately, the clerk discouraged us from buying it upon realizing that we wanted it as a bass amp. So my question is twofold.
First, can damage actually be done to a K200 PA head by running a bass guitar into it?
Second, can anyone suggest a quick fix to improve said amp's REALLY low range (it sort of loses punch around low G on the E string)?
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5973 is a reply to message #5972] |
Sun, 24 July 2005 18:21  |
BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky
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Senior Member |
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Welcome to the site! No problems with using the 200B-5 as a bass head. Cabinets are the critical thing. I prefer 2x15 4ohm loads to play bass with ANY of the 200 series heads. Yes, I agree you lose a little on the really low notes....but remember the 200 is a 100 watt RMS amp and that is at a 4 ohm load load. If the 4x10s are PA columns you will not be happy with them for bass....BUT THE HEAD WILL BE FINE. The columns may actually be 4x12s and look like 10s if you are measuring the speakers from the front. If you are playing a 5 or 6 string bass you will like an 18 inch speaker a cabinet. I have a friend who modified a Kustom 2x15 and loaded a 1x12 and 1x18 for a guy who played a 5 string....it really goes low now! I play bass in a classic rock and blues band and I have used vintage Kustoms exclusively for the last 6 years.
Tell us more...what color is the Kustom? What kind of music do you play? What size clubs or audiences? BC
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5975 is a reply to message #5973] |
Mon, 25 July 2005 00:31 |
dkerwood
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2005
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Junior Member |
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Well, it was a standard black head and speakers, with a nifty purple jewel light. My sister plays bass in my band, Leave Thursday (www.leavethursday.co.nr), and we play Christian alternative rock. Typically our audiences are 50-100 people, but we do want enough oomph to handle larger audiences if necessary.
We did take the head back into the store and played it though a 2x10 Hartke cab and a 4x10 Peavey cab, and through each, it began to break up at around 12 o'clock on the volume. Granted, each of these cabs were around 300W cabs...
My sis was really disappointed, because she fell in love with the look of the amp, just not the sound through the speakers.
Would it be reccomended to load up the 2 columns with 10" bass speakers? Might that improve things?
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5980 is a reply to message #5979] |
Mon, 25 July 2005 13:57 |
BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky
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Senior Member |
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Seems to me there is always Kustom gear in the KS area...They were built in Chanute KS. Several in Nebraska too. First, try the head with a suitable cabinet and see if you like it. If it works for you, run an ad here and see what happens. Ask other musicians.... especially older country and gospel players....check pawn shops....ask music stores what they have in the "back room". Check with some churches that use praise bands...Lots of that gear was used in church for many years.
I have a nice black 2x15 cabinet now....but I already have a deal pending....if that falls through I will be in touch. Remember it is nice to match the colors on a Kustom but not essential. I mix mine up sometimes just to see how they look. I do not think there is much tonal difference in a PA head and a "Bass" (non Effect) head. We are using a K200B-5 PA head for a Keyboard amp in my band now and it is great with the low notes on the electric piano! BC
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5988 is a reply to message #5972] |
Mon, 25 July 2005 22:57 |
rodak
Messages: 516
Registered: October 2001
Location: Georgia
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Senior Member |
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Do the PA heads have the separate "Lo/Hi" input jacks? If so, make sure you're using the "Lo" jack - it refers to frequency response, not signal level. If you sue the "Hi" jack for bass, you'll get a fairly anemic sound no matter what the speakers are.
www.combo-organ.com
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5989 is a reply to message #5988] |
Mon, 25 July 2005 23:30 |
BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky
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Senior Member |
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To answer Rodak's question......No. The four jacks on the PA heads are used one for each channel......no high and low jacks like the other models. BC
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5993 is a reply to message #5989] |
Tue, 26 July 2005 09:31 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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The head will have no bright deep switch and the cabs can't take bass. Even if they had bass speakers they have no room to reflex. The head will work for bass though.
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #5996 is a reply to message #5995] |
Tue, 26 July 2005 16:43 |
BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky
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Senior Member |
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THe columns would be fine for sidefills......or monitors. I have used 4x12s and the 2x10 3x8 columns for both. Nix on the blue. The head would be fine but a 4x12 is a guitar cabinet.....you would be no better off. BC
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #6000 is a reply to message #5999] |
Tue, 26 July 2005 22:50 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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Old Kustom heads in some ways don't care what runs thru them they just power it. Todays modern amps are voiced for specific instruments. The old rule applies here you can use a bass amp for guitar but not a guitar amp for bass.
It probably has its roots from way back in the early days from when guitarist ran thru 57 to sixties Bassman amps and loved the sound. But bass players running thru 57 Twins to Super Reverbs in the sixties were less than thrilled.
The only thing you'd really miss in using the Pa head is the bright deep switch and hi low inputs that are on Kustom bass amps. I like the bright deep switch but could care less about the hi input.
The Pa cabs could be used for guitar as well as Pa. They will run eight ohms by using four sixteen ohm twelves in each cab. Your total load on them with two cabs will be four ohms. They have lots of midrange. So they are fine vocal reproducing but not too good for micing other instruments. They do not have the internal room nor are they ported properly to be used as bass cabs
That blue amp is a Kustom 150. Kustom cabs like those can be bass cabs. Those are probably not but you'd have to check to know for sure. The speakers could be replaced on those if you get it cheap enough.
If either one can be had cheap then you might think on getting both of them. You could then keep the Pa head and trade around for what cab that you want.
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #6005 is a reply to message #5972] |
Wed, 27 July 2005 12:39 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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It sounds like your present bass amp may be more powerful though. But the price is not that bad as long as every thing works no blown speakers ect.. You have to listen close there too as a working speaker near by can fool you some times into thinking that they all are.
If your not interested in it what color is it? Whats the deal on the little blue one since your not interested in it?
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #6010 is a reply to message #6008] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 08:16 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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Kinda depends on how much of that power (wattage) your guitar player is using. Most solid state will reach their full power rating before distortion and generally speaking two solid state amps watts equal one tube one. Why? Because wattage is rated at before distortion. Solid state amps don't distort very soon. Tube amps do so they are reaching distortion long before the full power of the amp is used. Guitar players don't mind distortion they can and will use the extra wattage a tube amp will generate.
Then there's the drummer is he a heavy hitter? If so then the rest of the band will have to match him. Things can then get loud in a hurry. My advice sell the 140 watt guitar amp and get him (the guitar player) a Deluxe reverb. He'll be at twenty two watts but the tube overdrive he seeks will come on early. In other words he's happy with his sound. So then a Kustom is quite adquate for the bass job. But if he uses that 140 watt Fender you need to be able to double his wattage. See what I mean by getting high wattage needed in a hurry.
I used to run thru a 66Bassman or my Twin, or my Tone Master. It was way too much it required a 400 watt bass amp to hang with it. But I have that 800 watt monster for bass. Now I use either a Deluxe Reverb, Pro Jr., or Cambridge 30. I'm happy with the guitar sound and the bass player using my Kustom's are happy even without the help of the monster eight hundred watt power amp that I can use thru my Kustom cabs with a Pa board as the premap section of that big old power amp.
The result is the band is plenty loud enought for any venue and the vocals can be heard as well as the rest of the band. Try and get the guitarist in the smallest tube amp you can while holding the drummer back or invest in some very good earplugs and about a three to four hundred watt bass amp.
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #6012 is a reply to message #6010] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 12:11 |
dkerwood
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2005
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Junior Member |
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I gotcha. Well, my guitar amp is a 140W solid state Fender. My 4 separate distortion tones come from 2 solid state distortion channels on the amp (besides the clean), mainly for slightly broken up "tubish" sound, and 2 from my Visual Sound Jekyll and Hyde pedal - a harder overdrive, like a tubescreamer, and a heavy distortion, like a Metal Zone, only without all the harshness.
Most of the time I'm using the clean channel, and I don't crank it to the point of distorting the amp. In fact, I rarely have to push it above 50 percent on my clean channel volume. Now, without some special electronic meters, I'm not going to be able to figure out how much of my wattage, on average, I use, but suffice it to say that my amp has way more headroom than even I probably suspect.
Our drummer is a fairly heavy hitter when he can be let loose. He knows how to pull back, but (in my opinion) he sounds best when he can go full throttle.
So do you think that a K200 would fill our needs with a 2x15 cab? I'm beginning to figure out that certain Kustoms seem to be more common than others, and finding a K550 bass amp might take a long time of searching.
One more question, and I'll quit hogging the forum here... If I can find a 50W 2x15 cab, would that be louder than using an equal 100W 2x15 cab? I'm still confused on this whole wattage/power thing... Thanks, all!
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #6016 is a reply to message #6015] |
Thu, 28 July 2005 18:19 |
BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky
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Senior Member |
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The cabinet is the right one.....but I can tell by looking that those are NOT the CTS speakers that came in it. SO....I do not know how it will sound. My Advice...keep looking! BC
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #6017 is a reply to message #6016] |
Fri, 29 July 2005 01:01 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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No casters, Hmmmm! not good. You gotta wonder why someone would rip them out and what shape the wood is in under there. Might even be a fake cab. I know a guy who made two. Kinda reminded you of Scarlet in gone with the wind with the dress made out of curtains. He covered them in curtain material LOL..
As for the speakers they are Jensens. Most of the time Jensens in Kustom cabs are guitar speaker now all the time but usually. It does'nt matter what kinda power level speakers you use it won't get any louder. The greater the power rating on the speakers is the more power that they can handle being put into them by and amp head.
Most CTS speakers (the standard Kustom Bass speakers) are rated at sixty watts a piece. A 2x15 CTS bass cab can handle 200 watts with no problem though. Your 140 watt Fender guitar amp is equal to about 70 tube watts. Thats pretty darn loud and if the drummer is that loud too. Your gonna be pushing the Kustom head hard. They are 100 watt heads not really the 200 as the model would suggest. Remember my two watts to every guitar player watt for bass rule and judge for your self. You can use and LPB1 or 2 power booster or something simular and usually make up the difference.
Other thoughts are that 100 watt rating is only good if you use two cabs. Kustoms are four ohm heads. But their single cabs unless fitted with replacement speakers are eight ohms. That means with only one cab it puts out around sixty five watts. Thats by the usual factoring.
But it seems to come up more than that 100 watts with two cabs. Why do I say that? Well in theory doubling your wattage is only susposed to increase your volume by only three Db. Thats hardly doubleing the volume. But I can tell you from lots of experience with Kustoms it is like double the volume with two cabs. That set up can take on your Fender guitar amp.
Other ways I use to get loud Kustoms is make the cab a four ohm cab by using efficient eight ohm speakers (Kustom use sixteen ohm speaker to get eight ohms per cab not four). That saves you needing two cabs. But I'm with BC this one does'nt look like it will be that cab.
I have also used a memory man pedal. No not for delay. But because it has a Stereo out. Why? Well then I can run two Kustom amps at once and the memory man has a built in power booster for the second amp. That would keep up with your Fender and your drummer no matter how hard he hits.
However there is loud and then there is loud. If a guitar player used a 100 watt tube amp like Twin or something. I pull out the big guns. Four Kustom cabs, powered by and eight hundred watt power amp, the preamp controls are provided by a little mixer. You can boost any frequency you want with that thing and or take away from what ever frequency you want. But I like it just fine with the controls flat. I can't invision any scenaro that can out do it.
I have even ran my Twin with my Tone Master by A/B switch and the bass rig was just fine. So hang in there it will work out.
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| Re: K200 PA head as a bass amp? [message #6018 is a reply to message #6017] |
Fri, 29 July 2005 01:32 |
dkerwood
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2005
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Junior Member |
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Well, you guys are gonna hate me. After lots of searching and trying to figure out what to do, my sister has decided on a brand new Behringer 300W bass head running into a vintage Acoustic brand 2x15 cab (with a METAL horn!). We know next to nothing about the Acoustic cab, because no wattage or ohm ratings exist on the back...
Anybody know anything about how to determine those little details? Some research I found tells me that occasionally the Acoustic amp cabs would be wired as 2 ohm cabs, which apparently can melt the speakers??? That'd be nice to know.
Anyway, she bought the Behringer head today, after thumping it through a Peavey 4x10 for a while. Earlier, we had played the Acoustic cab (at a different store) with a 400W amp head, but couldn't crank it up yet. We plan to head back there tomorrow with the Behringer head and my sister's bass to double check it, but so far so good.
Well, except for the fact that we won't end up with a Kustom in our backline. I may break down and buy a Kustom stack for guitar one of these days, though. I hear they sound amazing... lol...
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Thanks for all your help!
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