| VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4722] |
Sun, 22 August 2004 12:32  |
fuzzy4dice
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2004
Location: NJ
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Hey Guys,
I hear a lot of talk about vintage Kustoms 'round these parts, but I don't usually hear anything about the re-issues from the 90's. The tube heads etc.
Anyone have anything to say about those amps, which I would assume, were particularly different from the old solid- state heads and amps.
Thanks,
ezt
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4724 is a reply to message #4722] |
Sun, 22 August 2004 21:50  |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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You are right the new heads are fifty or more wattage tube amps. They sound fine. The cabs are much deeper than the old cabs that allows more room for the speaker reflex and thats a good thing. The covering work is good. As far as I know they only come in four colors and two different types of cabs in the head and cab verisons a 4x12 and the other 2x15. They made a number of smaller combo amps though.
The heads looked like and old plexi head and was just deeper instead of slanted like the last of the orginal rolled and pleated amps of the 150 and 250 final series of the orginal Kustom company. The logos on them are very simular to the old ones. I was disappointed that the company did'nt last longer with them. I know that I would have bought one had they lasted a little longer. I already had my eye on ordering one from musician's fiend (too high in the local stores) but then suddenly pooh they were gone.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4725 is a reply to message #4724] |
Sun, 22 August 2004 22:58 |
rodak
Messages: 516
Registered: October 2001
Location: Georgia
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After they went out of production, they started showing up on eBay. I saw some auctions where they had a picture showing STACKS of new Kustom cartons in the background, offering various heads and bottoms, alone and in combinations, and usually in a choice of colors. I think the prices they were going for were somewhat less than they'd have cost new, but still not terribly cheap. I guess it was all the same seller - I didn't really notice.
www.combo-organ.com
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4726 is a reply to message #4725] |
Sun, 22 August 2004 23:52 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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I know they came in four colors but the only colors showed in musician's fiend was charcoal and red with 2x15 or 4x12 cabs. Those were the only colors seen in the local stores here as well. But there were two others. They had lots of the tiny combos here.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4732 is a reply to message #4722] |
Mon, 23 August 2004 22:16 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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Yes it is too bad they were discontinued so soon. I would have loved to have had some of the 2x15's in the colors. They were a good tribute at least in looks to the orginal concept of the Ross Kustoms of the sixities and seventies no dout about it.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4734 is a reply to message #4733] |
Tue, 24 August 2004 09:50 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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I've only seen one of these for sale used and the fella who had it thought it was made of gold. I do wish I had known about musicians fiend blowing them out though. I would have sure picked up at least one in one of the colors I don't have.
After all it would have been a brand new amp. Other than the depth of the head and cabs too every thing really looked good just like the old two hundred series. Maybe some day some one will try it again. I have seen them used in lots of modern day videos too and that alone would probably make them sell at least moderately well.
They could probably could have been very cheaply made in china and saved on the labor cost even Vox has now switched all of its British production and moved the entire Vox line to china and korea.
I just got a korean Hofner clone and its nice. I could've even bought the parts and assembled it myself for that kind of money. Its not like its junk either the thing plays and sounds good. Too bad the latest Kustom venture did'nt fine a way to make it.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4740 is a reply to message #4739] |
Thu, 26 August 2004 07:55 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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They should have priced them lower to begin with like Vox is saying they are gonna do and they might still be in business. I have a friend who has a car wheel factory in china and he does very well against much better know name brands.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4750 is a reply to message #4748] |
Fri, 27 August 2004 20:50 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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The laid off Brits seem to feel the same way. It might work out alright but I think it will make the old British made Vox amps retain and even increase in value. I still would not mine if Kustom recreated the old line there though as right now we have no rolled and pleated reissue.
The idea of a true to the visual image of the plexi image of the orginal Kustoms while having deeper cabs was a great idea. In fact in a way Ross had already done just that at the end. But he used the slant metal faced heads while the look of the flat Plexi face and its logo are still the classic Kustom we all adore.
I would certianly still buy some if they were reissued. I'm sure they could be priced reasonable to sell. Kustom just is'nt Kustom if it does'nt look like a Kustom.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4875 is a reply to message #4722] |
Mon, 20 September 2004 20:28 |
voided3
Messages: 200
Registered: July 2004
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Senior Member |
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Hello. I don't think we need to add to the world war over tube vs. solid state, but the original Kustoms sound awesolutely amazing with the right effect and speaker set ups. I ran both my Kustom K200-A5 and a '68 Fender Showman through my Orange cab and they sounded almost exactly alike, I kid you not. I get awesome drenched crunch with mine if I use a tubescreamer. I know a lot of people say solid state doesn't give you the touch sensitivity of a tube, but i've found my Kustoms to be extremely responsive, even with effects. In many ways they react like a tube amp since when you crank them they break up, but i've never turned mine past noon or my ears would have bled. These amps were also built a lot like tube amps of the day as well, judging by their inner layout and since these amps were really one of the first big waves of high power solid state. Keep in mind I'm not bad mouthing tube amps by any means, i'm using them as a comparison; I love how many tube amps sound too (like Oranges, Fenders, Marshalls), i just can't afford them.... Tubes have an advantage in the sense that they are easier to work on for the most part and that you can change the sound of the amp simply by swapping out the tubes (and of course they sound awesome). However, they can also be more fragile because of the mostly exposed glass and they produce a lot of heat. Solid states have their quirks too though, for instance they can be hard to work on because of all of the silicon (more so in new amps than the old Kustoms though; new amps' guts look like computers with 1/4" inputs) and there are a lot of components needed to make them work too. The upside is, though, that they don't get as hot and you don't have to worry about a tube loosing its juice.
Anyway, the only reason I think tubes in a Kustom is a little iffy (not a bad idea, just iffy) is that even if they sound good, they are a kind of irony since the original Kustom company prided themselves in their breakthroughs in solid state. But yeah, my theory is if it sounds good, it doesn't cost too much, and doesn't hurt anything (except maybe my ears...I should use ear plugs more often), i'll use it, and the vintage Kustoms have filled that void tremedously for me. Thanks!
P.S.- i'd like to try out one too!
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4876 is a reply to message #4722] |
Mon, 20 September 2004 22:56 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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I don't care if they are solid state or tube I would buy one. I did notice that they were tube amps though. I did actually see some little bitty combo ones in a local store. They probably had and eight inch speaker in there. So I think that they were probably solid state. If they had a full size amp in stock I would have gotten one.
I have seen these amps in videos quite a bit for the short time that they were on the market. Since they were only on the market for a short time something other than sales must have happened.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4878 is a reply to message #4877] |
Tue, 21 September 2004 14:19 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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That would be interesting to see a Kustom hybrid amp for guitar. I'm completely satified with the orginal circuit for keyboards. For bass the orginal is fine just more of it. Three hundred watts into a 2x15 or 4x12 in the orginal type cabs and head would make a fine bass amp again.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4880 is a reply to message #4879] |
Tue, 21 September 2004 21:59 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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I did'nt think he was either. But you know that only the high end amps now actually have hard wood cabs. In Fender its only a few of the very top ones. None that I know of in Vox after the handwired series, or marshall ect ect.. I think that the hybrid type of amp for guitar would be perfect though for Kustom and just retain the entire amp as designed by Ross other than that.
A single 12ax7 would then just take the place of the of the harmonic clipper. Then we would still have the rest of the Kustom circuit intact. That would still give us that great Kustom clean sound with a tube overdrive as needed in the preamp section. Use a single 4x12 cab for them or two 2x12's.
I'm sure too that the original preamp section could still be retained and just hooked to a more powerful output stage for a bass amp. That way our Kustoms would still have the same tone just more power. I'm sure Kustom could get a deal with emmince for some fifteens to handle hundred fifty each for the cabs and wa la.
The cabs could be deeper as in the 250 series and the heads the same depth as the cab to retain the original plexi look and not the slant of the last.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4881 is a reply to message #4880] |
Tue, 21 September 2004 22:56 |
rodak
Messages: 516
Registered: October 2001
Location: Georgia
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Senior Member |
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I think what ET was saying was that Bud was looking at the new Kustom's at NAMM as an observer, not as a representative, and that his "observation" was the they were crap. Judging by their success (or lack thereof) in the market, it was clearly a keen observation.
Why do manufacturers try to save money with particle board vs plywood? I mean, what's the difference in price, at the wholesale level, of a sheet of plywood vs a sheet of particle board - 10 bucks, maybe 15? So for a head speaker cab, it would add maybe $20, $30 tops, to the price? When you're spending $600-$1,000 for a rig, would that little bit REALLY justify the added weight and reduced sturdiness you get with particle board? I can see it now:
Me: "So how much for the 200watt head and 2x15 cabinet"?
Salesman: "$899 for particle board or $929 for plywood"
Me: "you're kidding"
www.combo-organ.com
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4884 is a reply to message #4883] |
Tue, 21 September 2004 23:32 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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They (Kustom heads) open from the bottom. All my cabs are wood except for one four twelve I own. Its and odd duck too as the top and bottom are wood and the sides are particle board. Did'nt know until I opened the thing up though.
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4889 is a reply to message #4722] |
Thu, 23 September 2004 11:35 |
edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004
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Senior Member |
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sorry for any confusion..Bud had gone to the Namm as an observer...he had stopped at the kustom booth to check em out...when the sales guys found out who he was they started bragging to the other pedestrians that here was Bud Ross..."the guy that made the first old kustom tube amps"/...Bud was frustrated...he told me on the phone about it and said.."Ed.. I never made a tube amp..these guys didn't know a thing about the original product or me..and the new stuff was crap..." that's close to the conversation..he was disapointed in them..I was equally put out.. I had been emailing the new Cleveland Kustom folks as soon as they hit the market...asking them to consider producing a tuck n roll line..and to consider stepping up to making pro level stage sized equipment again..at the time..they didn't have more than a student grade 2x12 combo intheir offering...I told them about our gang, which back then was hanging threads on the vintage guitar forum...before we had our own website.. I was so enthused to see the kustom name coming back around and wanted to motivate the new company to consider its legacy...after about 6 emails with no reply whatsoever I pulled the old movie line from CLose Encounters.. "Stop and be friendly"...in a joking attempt to beg them to at least reply to my emails.. I had been used to being a regular part of the PEavey forum and the Gibson sites where employees actively and regularly respond to questions/comments from their loyal followings...well, I finally got an email from an exec named Wayne something...and he did a total blow off..told me they didn't have time to reply to emails...they were very busy trying to run a company...etc... I was crushed...but the next year..the little radio shack amps started showing up in tuck n roll..cute..but like some bad dream where you go into a store to buy a big ol pro grade sparkle kustom and all they have are these little desk top transistor radios...I fell into a state of total depression..lost about 200 pounds and threw up daily...oh, and never could bring myself to buy one of the little guys...anyway..sure nuff...along came the big rigs...but over a year late due to production problems in China..and when they did come in, they were way over budget specs on the $. It was a bad experience for kustom and I feel bad for them...oh..and never mind that when I tried to buy a replacement handle...the old style..they didn't have any ..but when they would get some in..it was going to something like $15 or $20 each.. I can't remember....so between Bud's comments, my experience with Wayne, and the quality that I had seen.. I simply turned my back on the new product and the new company and I'm still on the pout. The rigs that I have seen..the tuck n roll was crooked...the material thin and easily torn..the cabinetry flimsy and the amps would need to be retubed and have some serious part upgrades befor I would consider them ready for lounge lizard work...don't get me wrong.. I truly wish someone were making the gear..I had even offered to commission a triplet of white 3x12s from them early on.. I was touring nationally back then and the new kustoms would have been on 10,000 seater stages for the next 3 years at least.. can ya tell I'm heartbroken.. I told them about our website when we got it up...invited them to join us...I belive the feeback from this group would be so incredibly valuable to the company...now that James Brown is heading up the amps..we'll see if things improve.. I sure hope so...if you think I'm way off...go check out PEavey's forum...there are several employees per each product group..you can ask questions..everything from.."here's myserial number on a used piece I just pulled off of ebay..when was it made.."...and they'll come back to you right away..they are great..Chip Todd...famous guitar designer and manufacturing lead responsible for PEavey and the new Fender factory hangs out there all the time and will reply to you as well...and yeah...my classic Pvs are solid wood, solid solder and I'm way impressed with that line of amps.
On a brighter tone...I love the idea of replacing the fuzz/boost section in the 200 heads with an AX7 at full plate voltage..same design down to the smaller combos runing at 30 and 50watts rms..and yes, the bass rigs need to be running at a solid 300 watts rms minimum.. there are guys on this forum that can explain the diff in the design of thekustoms..how they basically run wide open with an attenuator to pull the volume down...I dunno..but something in the design of the kustoms gives a tighter low end and more volume/punch than many of the new more high watt rated amps on the market..for example..aK200 stands right in there with say a PVCS400 series...and my big K400 heads with 100rms per side will punch as hard as my mackie 1400 amp through the same speakers (pr of 2x15s)..so to be able to take the kustom design up by a 3xpower...oh yeah... ya know its worked for SWR..the 900 is still one of the most requested backline rigs and it along with the old Hartke were the first contemporary solid state answer for the old Ampeg SVT fans.
Couple guys have Bud's Krossroads 500 series..that'll give you an idea of watt 500watts non clippable can do...impressive...thanks for letting me vent...just love talking kustoms...now back to our program...ET
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| Re: VIntage Kustom vs. Newer Kustom [message #4894 is a reply to message #4893] |
Thu, 23 September 2004 23:00 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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Did Elliot use his signature guitar with that combo or another one? I saw Forgerty on A&E last night and to my dismay an disappointment he did'nt have a single Kustom or Ric on stage with him. Kinda sad since he and CCR was the main Kustom act to hear that they are using Pee Vee.
He too was using two marshall 4x12 cab and playing a Les Paul for most of the songs. But I could'nt see what he was using. He seemed to be really enjoying his woman tone made famous by Eric Clapton. He had two other guitar players with him and one of them had a nice Vibro King but John covered them up sonically almost totally. About the only time I heard another instrument besides his guitar, bass, and drums was a hammond on 'Who'll Stop The Rain'.
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