New Member needs help! [message #14551] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 13:38 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/down.png) |
Gavindale
Messages: 14 Registered: January 2010
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Junior Member |
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Hello everyone.
I have enjoyed this forum and now wish to post my gear with the hope of identification and the repair and use.
First is a Gold Sparkle PA speaker cab. It has a CTS badge on the back and has 4 1968 12" CTS speakers, with aluminum dust caps, and are in good condition. Do you have any idea as to the safe/correct numbers for OHM's and watt connection? I hope to use this with guitar amplifiers and do not wish to blow them up!
Next is a black T&R speaker cab with a CTS badge. It holds 3-15" speakers but upon opening it up I found 3 grey basket JBL D-131-F blown speakers. (I knew they were blown when purchased). I have had them reconed, installed, and ready to go. This cab has the chrome ports mounted on the outside of the grill cloth. This cab is very good condition. These are 16 ohm speakers and I was told that they are rated for 150 watts each but I still want to understand a safe amp watt output figure. I also understand that my wire connections put this at 5.33 ohm's. (approx)
Finally I come to the Amp itself. I think that this was not a original pairing with the 3-15" cab. Again we have black T&R.
The Back:
Model # 2-15K-4
Serial # 19313
Color - Black
One unmarked 1/4" female jack. Speaker output? I think a good bet but no Ohm or Watt specs.
One RCA (?) female jack. No marking. NO WIRE TO THE PCB BOARD.
One Switchcraft jack. 4 male pins. One flat male pin? It is broken at the base so this is just a guess on my part. Green plastic with a pot metal surround.
Front:
Plexiglass front.
"Kustom" and "by Ross,Inc." but no other information.
Left side, L to R then top to bottom.
Reverb, Speed, Volume, Bright, Trem-Vib, Intensity, Bass, Treble.
Right side. Same order.
Volume, Bright, Selective Boost, Harmonic Clipper, Bass, Treble, Boost Vol, Clipper Vol.
High/Low inputs per side
Jewel light between the inputs.
Strange switch design of On/Off/On. No standby switch. No tubes so none needed. Duh on my part. So why two "On" settings?
So my new friends, what the hell do I have? I did hook up the amp one time and it did power up but I quickly shut it down when the fear of damage to the amp (and myself!)crept up and grabbed me.
The 3-15" cab has been hooked up to my 1968 Bandmaster head and was slowly exposed to higher volume for break in purpose and when the head was cranking it was REALLY fun working the guitar with the open ports for pure natural sustain like no other I have ever experienced. The speakers seem to have a lot of low end and I used a Tele and lots of treble to get a good tone but I also understand the need for a break in period. I am looking forward to hearing this cab after the cones loosen up.
The Gold cab I have left alone in fear of overloading but am curious as to what comes out of it.
So my novel here is done! Now it's up to YOU! Where do I send this amp for COMPETENT repair/restoration? Is it worth it? Hook up both these cabs to one amp for tonal fun? Alas I am but a sea of ignorance.
Thank you.
[Updated on: Sun, 17 October 2010 14:26] Report message to a moderator
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Re: New Member needs help! [message #14552 is a reply to message #14551] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 15:10 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/down.png) |
pleat
Messages: 1453 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi
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Senior Member |
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Welcome to the site.
Lot of questions. The gold PA cab uses four 8 ohm speakers wired in series/parallel combination for an 8 ohm total load. The speakers are around 25 watt ratage, but with the wiring configuration each speaker is taking 25% of what ever power is driving the column. I guess using caution is always the best thing.
Always interested in the gold, as so many white silver T&R turn a gold over the years. Easy way is to remove one of the metal glides on the bottom and see what the original color really is.
The 3x15 cab, if it has the chrome plastic ports, it's a safe bet that the logo badge will say Kustom Electronics and dates it towards the 1969 era. The Aluminum ports, used the Kustom By Ross name badge. Good call on re coning the speakers with 16 ohms. Kustom used 16 ohm speakers in all their 200 series cabs. So the cabinet is good to go with the kustom amp you have.
The model you have is a K200A-4 amp. The model #2-15K-4 is what the head and cabinet shipped from the factory. The 2-15K was a 2x15 speaker cabinet loaded with Altec speakers. the Dash 4 is the amp with all the effects that kustom offered. The amp head is what most people refer to the Fogerty head. Serial number puts in 1967.
Looking at the back panel. Lower right hand would be the Switchcraft 4 pin XLR jack for the footswitch. To get the effects to work, you need the footswitch to activate each effect, or wire all the pins to ground to turn on the effects.
The RCA jack is a tape record or monitor out jack and should have one blue wire connected to the power amp mid way from each end at the top. There should be two 1/4" speaker jacks towards the left side of the amp between the cord wraps. You mentioned One unmarked 1/4" female jack. is it somewhere else other than described? If so, someone added a jack for some reason.
The amp is 100 watts RMS driving a 4 ohm total load. Kustoms can operate above 4 ohms but do not try and go below 4 ohms. That will cause damage. You can run either of your Kustom cabinets, but don't run them both.
The two position on switch is a polarity reversing switch. Helps in grounding issues back in the day. We all recommend replacing the 2 wire AC cord with a grounded 3 wire Ac cord.
As far as sending the amp for repair? Does the amp work, or are you afraid to hook it up and try it? Not knowing where you are located, I can't answer that. Worth? Hard to say, not knowing what condition it is cosmetically, and electronically. If it's clean, everything works as it should, I'm sure there are some guys out there that would love to own it it any condition.
pleat
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Re: New Member needs help! [message #14554 is a reply to message #14551] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 07:42 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/down.png) |
stevem
Messages: 4748 Registered: June 2004 Location: NY
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Senior Member |
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Hello and welcome to the place!
Wattage wise powering eitheir of your cabinets you are safe as you Bandmaster head puts out a normal 38 to 40 watts of normal RMS power.
If you have really good N.O.S output tubes (7581A not 6L6GC) that are tested under real operating voltages like I have my 68 Bandnaster fitted with you can squeak out some 49 watts of RMS power from the head which is a safe power level for your cabinets.
Your Bandmaster is loooking for a 4 ohm load so pairing that with the 3-15 cab is a better match for it.
Running the Fender at a 8 ohm load will eat up your output tubes twice as fast as when driving a 4 ohm load, it will also limit the heads wattage to 1/3 less output and effect the amps low end power some.
If you find that your K200 is in need of repair I can help you out with that if you do not mind shipping the head to the metro NY area.
PM me if the amp needs help.
[Updated on: Mon, 18 October 2010 07:44] Report message to a moderator
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Re: New Member needs help! [message #14560 is a reply to message #14554] |
Mon, 18 October 2010 13:46 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/down.png) |
Gavindale
Messages: 14 Registered: January 2010
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Junior Member |
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Hello plete and stephem. Thank you for the welcome and the great information. Last evening I read plete's reply and went about answering some of the questions brought up.
Yes the 3-15" cab has the "Kustom Electronics" badge. The overall condition of the cab is 9.2.
The gold cab is without question original gold sparkle. Yes it has seen LOTS of smoke and has some burns on it but the grill cloth is near mint and the T&R is ..... ohh let's say 8.5. And as stated the speakers are original and match and all work.
Now the "HEAD".
Cosmitecaly it is a good 9.0. Yes you are correct as to the 2 output jacks for speakers. I knew the other was there but overlooked with the power cord in the way. Sooooo....are both 4ohm?
I have a friend that makes industrial switches and said that he could make a pedal for it. He also suggested the choice of wiring all four pins to ground. I have other amps that have effects controlled by switch but work just fine left on and turned down by control knobs. Would this be true on this amp? A simple wire job and turned down controls seems to be the easiest choice but we will see. I still wonder about the flat metal piece that looks like it has broken off located on the top middle of the jack socket.
Then I read you question....have I turned it on? Well I bought this a guitar show, knew the speakers were an issue, had no idea of the correct outputs so the most I had done was hook it up to a 8ohm cab. I only remembered a snap when I turned it on, controls not working, and a hum that worried me that I would cause harm to it. So it has sat for .....3 years?...until I got the speakers done and the cab rebuilt. The gold cab came recently and again my ignorance kept me from trying it.
So off I went to the studio.
Plugged it in and hooked up the black cab. 1977 Telecaster with a full Gatton mods. Original Bardens, Vintique bridge, brass saddles, neck bolts, ect. plugged into the left side input.
I timidly hit the power switch and got a good sized snap. It has a hum but it quieted down a I started to adjust controls.
Holy mother....as expected no effect function.....but tone, bright, and volume worked along with all 4 inputs.
I worked the volume and tone.....started to increase all....and I was FLOORED! I own my share of amps but have never played a full Marshall stack but this amp with the 3-15" speakers was nothing like ANYTHING I have ever played. The Tele tone was better then any Fender or boutique amp I own. I got addicted to the volume. I know...break in speakers slowly. But......
I only use 3 pedals. Wah, compressor and distortion. And a outboard Fender Reverb unit. Set some levels again. My ears were screaming for help....
My floor is solid concrete but I swear the volume vibrated the floor! I couldn't stop. Then I grabbed my Goldtop LP and either clean or with full blown distortion it was the best tone I think I have ever pulled in 30 years with either guitar.
So I don't think this will be on the market anytime soon unless someone pulls big bucks out their pocket. Never say never!
Concerns. If any volume knob is left up beyond 0 then there is a disturbing snap everytime it is powered up. Some hum but nothing that concerned me. There was a short time when I started with the LP when the volume seemed to fluctuate when I first hit the power but it straightened out within..say...10 seconds? The effects are still a wide open question. I have not removed the back plate so I hope the reverb pan is still there.
So other than finding out about the effects and the snap issue....well......HOLY COW.
Awesome.
Thanks again. And I hope to check out my Bandmaster for optimum performance and may need some help along those lines also. The 7851A's sound like a interesting change for me to check into.
Not a Kustom though!
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Re: New Member needs help! [message #14576 is a reply to message #14574] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 17:49 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/down.png) |
pleat
Messages: 1453 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi
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Senior Member |
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No, I said all the effects work on the left channel. The K200A-4 amp head is what you really have, even though your model number is different. ALL effects work only on the left channel. Reverb, trem/vibrato, selective boost and harmonic clipper. Even though the selective boost and clipper are located on the far right side of the amp, they only work with the left channel. To get the effects to work, you will need to wire all the pins of the footswitch jack to ground, and then you will will have to turn off and on from the actual controls on the front of the amp.
The K200B series amps split the effects between both channels.
Reverb/trem, left channel only. Harmonic clipper and selective boost worked on the right channel only. Stevenm is correct that on the B series, you would need to use a Y cord into both channels to get all the effects to work.
They did change the B series, so the effects would work without a footswitch. Never made any sense to split the effects on the B series, and even Bud can't remember why they did.
I'm outside Grand Rapids, MI but there should be someone in your area that does amp repairs.
pleat
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Re: New Member needs help! [message #14581 is a reply to message #14551] |
Thu, 21 October 2010 13:51 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/down.png) |
chicagobill
Messages: 2005 Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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The A-series amps were made for a relatively short time period in the history of Kustom amps. They came between the original K200 Frank heads and the later extremely popular (and plentiful) K200-B series amps. The A-series amps introduced a full line of built-in switchable effects and also introduced the new power amp design that increased output power to a full 100 watts. The B-series amps corrected a few design problems (physical and electronic) and was produced in huge numbers.
The K200A-4 is what was the top of the line for guitar heads at that time. It had all of the bells and whistles. Because of this it also was one of the most expensive amps in the line as well. Back in the day, if you liked Kustom amps you would dream of owning one of these models. So to start with, if we can make a little assumption here, there were fewer A-4's sold than the other less expensive models.
There were a lot of bands that used and endorsed Kustom amps, the most popular was and still is Creedence Clearwater Revival. John Fogerty used a K200A-4 head on countless albums and tours. Because of this association, the K200A-4 model is usually sought after more than any other A-series amp.
All that being said, your amp may be worth more on the general market than a more common version, but still is not worth what a 59 Bassman is. If you bought it for $20, then you did real good.
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Re: New Member needs help! [message #14632 is a reply to message #14551] |
Tue, 26 October 2010 07:43 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/FUDforum/theme/vk30/images/up.png) |
stevem
Messages: 4748 Registered: June 2004 Location: NY
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Senior Member |
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Here`s some help for you my Kustom friend.
First off unless you play church organ type stuff thru your amp and wnat it to sound like thats being heard from 100 miles away I would stay away from a 6 spring pan!
As you go up in spring count your notes played get washed out and blended togetheir and you loose high end responce(read muddy) which is why I like the metal face K150s and 250 so much for their tone control they have in the reverb circuit.
The Reverb tank you need is a type 4 serise with its case gorunded to the input and output connections.
its input and output resistance sould be 182 to 190 ohms, or a impeadnace of 2.25k to 2.5 k ohms and had a medium decay spec.
As you look thru the Accutronics pan specs also not that you need a pan with specs for its mounting postion as in horzontial, up side down and all that stuff.
Having the pans inputs and outputs does not matter much as long as the cords you hook it up with let you mount the pan with its output jack side as far away from the power transfomer as possible.
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