| 3 wire versus 2 [message #2754] |
Fri, 23 May 2003 15:14  |
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I am the one who left the previous message help me out there guys what would yall do?
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2767 is a reply to message #2756] |
Fri, 30 May 2003 00:40  |
KustomBlues
Messages: 494
Registered: June 2001
Location: Michigan
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Senior Member |
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Yes, make the change and keep the original cord. It could save your life. Getting electrocuted is not fun or good for you! It's an easy mod to do to. Deb
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2773 is a reply to message #2767] |
Fri, 30 May 2003 17:34 |
ET
Messages: 146
Registered: October 2000
Location: Charlotte NC
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Senior Member |
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I'm probably giving bad advice.. I swear I like having the original 2 prong with polarity switch..there are many times when I plug in and get plenty of 60 cycle noise and just reach back and flipit the other way and silence! now I know I could get a little 2 prong adapter to lift the ground..but then aren't we back to the same place? just learn to touch the strings of your guitar/bass up to the mic before you get going to check for polarity with the PA...I've gotten bit countless times...and except for the one blackened tooth in the front of my mouth... I''m ff ii nnnnne ...ET
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2774 is a reply to message #2773] |
Fri, 30 May 2003 21:22 |
KustomBlues
Messages: 494
Registered: June 2001
Location: Michigan
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Senior Member |
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Fine ET???? :-) I prefer to keep my lips from being burnt one more time... Besides, you can always put the 2 prong cord back on when the piece is on display in a museum somewhere. Another interesting thought here is the fact that by putting on a 3 wire cord you may actually be saving some damage to the amp's guts... I suppose it's not healthy for the amp to get poked either. What do all the techies have to say about that?
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2776 is a reply to message #2754] |
Sat, 31 May 2003 12:04 |
Bill
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2002
Location: Kansas
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Member |
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My two cents worth is put on the new cord and keep the old one for resale, etc. Getting lit up while singing is no fun...(Used to happen with an old Fender microphone I used with our K200 PA--would shoot a spark two inches! My lips would look worse than getting beat up by a red-headed woman.) haha.
I have replaced the cords on all my Kustoms.
Thrill Bill
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2778 is a reply to message #2776] |
Sat, 31 May 2003 22:31 |
ET
Messages: 146
Registered: October 2000
Location: Charlotte NC
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Senior Member |
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bunch of babies...what's a little voltage here n there....good way to stay awake during that 4th set of the night..and heck..it ain't near as shocking as when they turn on the ugly lights at the end of the night and you get a good look at that babe that's been dancing at the foot of the stage just for you all night long....talk about ouch!
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2784 is a reply to message #2778] |
Tue, 03 June 2003 23:19 |
KustomBlues
Messages: 494
Registered: June 2001
Location: Michigan
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, what ET said...... only substitute dude for dudette..... No, seriously, change the cord or else that sparking and lips burning can effect your thinking! This damage was evidenced here by ET's comments...... :-)
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2786 is a reply to message #2784] |
Wed, 04 June 2003 09:10 |
C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...
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Senior Member |
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Once you change the cord to a 3 wire, the only hum you will hear is if you have a guitar cord problem. I had a hum problem and found I had an unshielded speaker cable that I was using as a guitar cord. I need to mark those cables better.
Conrad
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2835 is a reply to message #2786] |
Mon, 16 June 2003 00:24 |
JB
Messages: 32
Registered: January 2003
Location: Maryland
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Member |
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OK, being fairly new here I resisted interjecting on this subject especially since I'm no tech wiz. I have 2 Kustoms amps. An SC150 4x12 and a K200a-4. Now, from most recomendations here I changed the AC cord on my 1st Kustom (SC150) and really didn't like the experience. Most of all I didn't like tampering with the amps originallity. On my 2nd Kustom (K200A-4) I decided to take a different appoach and it was simple, easy and came with a zero risk of being shocked while diving into the inner electronics of the amp. I took an old extention cord that I had lying around and cut the shielding off to expose the 3 wires (Black, green, white)inside then cut enough of the black wire from it to match the length of my AC cord on my amp. I used a pair of pliers to pull the grounding end off the old extention cord. Then I soldered that onto one end of the black wire I took from the extention cord. I taped the end of the wire with the grounding end to the end of the amp AC cord with some electrical tape possitioning it so that when I plugged the end into an outlet the ground went into the outlet as well. Then taped the rest of the black wire to the power cord. At the end of the cord at the amp side I loosened the screws on one of the power cord holders (the thing that you wrap the power cord around when tranporting the amp) and wrapped some of the stripped wire around one of the srcews under the holder then tightened the screws onto the wire securing it to the chassis. I may be making this process seem more difficult than it was. All in all this job took about 1/2 hour to do. It took me a lot longer to do the first amp and I was really affraid I was going to get zapped. Just another persons perspective. the best thing about this mod is when you/if sell the amp you just take the tape off loosen two screws and your back to the original amp power cord.
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2838 is a reply to message #2835] |
Mon, 16 June 2003 22:57 |
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Excuse my brutal honesty here--The risk of you getting shocked while converting to a 3 wire cord is nothing to worry about. All this cobbling around has not really provided you with any real shock protection because the cord handles are made of white cast and do not offer the same metal qualities that you need to have a solid and safe ground connection, and there is in the issue of painted surfaces too. If you enter the amp and keep your hands on the wires and unsolder them, and solder the white and black where they go, and use an appropriate place your your ground to chassis connection, you will not get hurt. Running the amp with this cobbled up mess will get you hurt. You could have installed a new 3 wire cord into the head in less time than it took you to come up with, and implement this idea. Put a real 3 wire cord on this amp, or go back to dangerland.
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2839 is a reply to message #2838] |
Tue, 17 June 2003 13:53 |
JB
Messages: 32
Registered: January 2003
Location: Maryland
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Member |
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I expected to get a bit of crique on this but the fact is it works great, no shocks here and it's easy to test, just plug a guitar cord into the input of the amp and use a continuity tester on the ground end and the sleeve of the guitar cord if your grounded the tester will be the judge. I think "brutal honesty" will quickly change his mind if he ever gets a nice charge from fishing inside a huge Kustom head. Make no mistake these amps store voltage. Maybe what I suggested is not for everyone but maybe some folks shouldn't attempt the cord change as well. I was just thinking of those not comfortable with going into thier amps.
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #2844 is a reply to message #2839] |
Wed, 18 June 2003 09:57 |
C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...
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Senior Member |
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Here is another dissention. The vintage qualities of a 2 wire cord is not worth the hassle you have presented. Besides IF the cord were damaged by something dropping on it, a cut or a wayward fork lift, you would need to replace the cord anyway. Besides, I know black tape and it leaves a residue that is a very messy cleanup. I just went to my local Home Depot and bought a 30' green 16/3 extension cord, to match my cascade K100-2, cut off the female end and placed it back into the amp with the same hardware. I kept the original cord, just in case. But understand, my K100 will never leave my family. It is worth more to me than the $400 I would get, or $399.99 with the new grounded cord.
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #4575 is a reply to message #2754] |
Fri, 30 July 2004 03:33 |
voided3
Messages: 200
Registered: July 2004
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Senior Member |
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Hello. I have two Kustom heads, both with the original cords. I don't want to change the cord not for value reasons but because i like the stock cord's design. In theory, couldn't you screw a single 16 gauge wire to the chassis, wrap it around the cord (for portability reasons), and screw the other end on to the outlet plate's mounting screw for a ground since the screw is on the outlet's chassis, which connects to its ground terminal (using a connector loop on both ends on the amp and outlet for better connectivity)? And yes, i am a little parinoid of ruining my amps' great sound so i don't want to completely replace the cord and screw up the polarity switch, but I do want to be better grounded to avoid getting toasted (my friend has a Silvertone twin-twelve with a two prong cord a metal knobs, he gets toasted everytime, but my Kustoms have never shocked me, good 'ol plexi). I know this idea sounds a little bodge-tastic, but wouldn't it work? Thanks!
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #4584 is a reply to message #4576] |
Fri, 30 July 2004 16:30 |
chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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FYI-Current UL specs require 3-wire cords and the removal (or disableing) of polarity switches and ground caps from all current amp designs. This insures that even if a wall socket is miswired, there can be no possible connection of the chassis to the hot side of the 120v line, even thru a safety cap. Quite a few years ago Fender reissued the Deluxe Reverb Amp with a polarity switch in the back, like all of the 60's amps, but the switch was there for show only and was not wired to anything.
Maybe we should all be changing our power cords and rewiring our power and or polarity switches. Bill
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| Re: 3 wire versus 2 [message #4642 is a reply to message #4641] |
Fri, 06 August 2004 02:23 |
C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...
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Senior Member |
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Here is the story, so stay with me. NO! The cord will NOT change the sound of your amp. PERIOD!!!!!!! What it will do, though, is make it alot safer. Prior to the late 60's and early 70's, recepticles in most locations were not of the grounding type. That is a 3 wire cord and plug. On 120 volt (U.S. mostly)systems one side of the recepticle is grounded. I have to spend a few minutes to explain the difference between grounded and grounding. Grounded means the white conductor is terminated to a ground point in the building you are in. All buildings in the US and for the most part, the world, have a ground rod or other means of connecting to the earth. Hence the term, "ground". The neutral wire in your house, the white wire, is bonded to the ground intentionally to provide a safe electrical system. That is the "grounded conductor". The green wire in your cord, is the grounding conductor. That connects the body of a drill or any appliance directly to ground. This is a safety circuit. The difference between the green wire and the white wire is, the white wire carries current for whatever is working, and the green wire keeps the current from reaching your hands or other body part. Back to the story. Before electrical systems added the grounding terminal in the recepticle, the ground, the plug could be plugged in either way. All electrical devices have a small amount of leakage within them. That means that your amp never really isolated from the electrical system it is attached to. So the chassis of your rig has a potential on it even though all precautions are taken. If you plug your amp in, with the 2 wire cord, you could have either the grounded side of the recepticle going to your chassis or the hot side going to your chassis. If you have the grounded side, no problem. If you have the hot side, fried lips if you touch the microphone, another amp or for that matter, bare feet on the damp grass. The ground makes sure that the guitar you are holding is the same potential as the earth you are standing on. That same problem has to do with the hum that sometimes happens. The switch would intentionally connect either one side or the other of the line to the chassis through a capacitor depending which way the switch was thrown. That may or may not solve the hum problem but certainly would create new shock problems. A long answer to a large problem. Most of us would agree that changing the cord is a good idea. The amount of resale value lost or gained is not worth the safety issue. I'm not blowing smoke here. your life could be at risk. My job is to install safe systems. I have been an electrician for 31 years and a tech for nearly that long. It takes a tiny fraction of the current that your amp needs to work, to kill you. Better be safe.
Sorry for the long diatribe, but I felt is was necessary to get the grounded message out.
Guys, Play loud and safe. (sorry ET)
Conrad
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