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Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11324]

Sat, 04 July 2009 18:48

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

Hi guys,
This is my first post but I have been lurking off and on for awhile. I've been interested in picking up an old Kustom head for awhile and have finally run across one locally. Now I have a few questions.

The one that I'm looking at is a K-250B but I don't know the rest of the model number. It has all of the effects on it: distortion, boost, wah/filter, reverb, trem, and vibrato. The reverb seems really weak, but I come from owning mostly old Fenders so I'm not sure if this is normal or not. I know that a lot of the new stuff I've played also has pretty mild reverb compared to a Fender so maybe this isn't a problem. Did these old heads have fairly weak reverb? I've noticed on some of the old tuck and roll heads there is no lockout knob for the reverb and this one has the lockout. Does that mean anything as far as age?

Everything appears to function properly without any pops or noisy pots so the reverb is the only thing that may or may not be an issue. It has jacks for the XLR footswitch (no switch, though) and also a 1/4" for boost. I'm assuming that the switches could be easily soldered together with the right plug.

Is $270 out of line for the head only? It seems a little bit on the high side but I've never found these locally and I don't think I've even seen one of these for sale when I was actually looking, so I have to figure in at least $30 or so for shipping if I were to purchase one on-line.

Anything else I need to know or watch out for?

Thanks.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11327 is a reply to message #11324]

Sat, 04 July 2009 23:49

BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky

Senior Member

You are looking at a K250-4 with all the effects. It is a very desireable amp. Original pedals for this amp are few and far between.....but you can always make one to do the job and that is what is important if you are a player. Mike Campbell who plays guitar with Tom Petty uses one in his stage setup. I am not a technical guy...so I would be no help with the reverb. Cosmetic shape and color are important too. If you are happy with the price for the condition it is a good deal. I like the title of your post. It indicates that you know there will be more Kustoms in your future! BC Cool

Cool

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11328 is a reply to message #11324]

Sun, 05 July 2009 00:33

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

Thanks for the info on the model number. Is there a site somewhere that actually gives a good rundown on the various models and their numbers?

This is the first chance that I have had to play through an original Kustom since about 1977 Laughing

Laughing

I knew that Mike Campbell had at least one Kustom head but wasn't sure which model it was. I still wanted to be able to hear one in person before buying...Mike can make anything sound good and I can't.

As long as I can find the proper plug I could solder up a footswitch. I think it was a five pin XLR type though I'll have to check that when I go back to play through it again. I would just like to make sure that the reverb is normal before pulling the trigger.

Is blue sparkle desirable? The color doesn't mean too much to me but it would be nice to know.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11330 is a reply to message #11324]

Sun, 05 July 2009 09:25

rodak
Messages: 516
Registered: October 2001
Location: Georgia

Senior Member

It might be a 5-pin DIN. That's a circular connector with the pins arranged in a "C" shape. They're easily obtanable. I don't know if there's such a thing as a 5-pin XLR.

Color doesn't matter? C'mon, now - that's one of the most important characteristics!

www.combo-organ.com

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11331 is a reply to message #11324]

Sun, 05 July 2009 10:18

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I counted 5 pins in a "C" or "U" shape and couldn't tell if there was one in the center or not. It looked to me like an XLR type of socket but I'm not really sure what the difference is between DIN and XLR. I thought that the DIN connectors were the circular ones with the smaller pins like old Peavey's used to use...I could definitely be wrong.

Quote:

Color doesn't matter? C'mon, now - that's one of the most important characteristics!

I really don't care though I do like most of the colors better than black. I doubt that I'll ever run across a blue cabinet, but funds and space are scarce right now anyhow.

Is the price terribly out of line? It looks to be a little high based on what I've been able to find on-line but I haven't seen this exact model.

Also, is the reverb a lot weaker on these compared to an old Fender?

Thanks again.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11332 is a reply to message #11331]

Sun, 05 July 2009 10:44

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

First off welcome to our site. The literature secttion shows the K250 heads. Three models, 250-1, 250-2 and the 250-4 which is the amp you are buying. It does have a microphone style 5 Pin XLR jack for running the effects. The 5 XLR plugs are ava. To make up a footswitch you will want to wire the casing as ground, pin 1 is the + voltage for the lights that are in the footswitch so leave it blank, pin 2 is trem-vib. pin 3 reverb, pin 4 boost, and pin 5 is the fuzz.
Color is important, price will vary with the color, black is most common so a little cheaper to purchase but easier to find a matching cabinet than a color. There is a blue 2x15 in Cleveland for sale on craigslist, so cabinets can be found.
The weak reverb can be caused by the disk that is on the reverb lock, I've seen the reverb spring bounce so hard that the spring ends up on the wrong side of the disk and when unlocked it pulls the spring towards the rebverb tank housing that the remaining spring is actually doing what it should do. Weak reverb might be just a bad reverb tank, the slant metal face amps used a 200 ohm in and 25.6 ohm output. I have one if needed.
One other thing with the K250 amps, the lower input jack on each channel is a hotter gain and really brings them to life.
Hope this helps,
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11333 is a reply to message #11324]

Sun, 05 July 2009 11:22

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

Don,
Thanks for the info on the footswitch pins. If I buy the head I'll eventually throw together a switch for it. I'm curious about the "boost" selector on the footswitch as I thought that there was a second 1/4" jack on the back labeled boost as well.

I know with my Fenders that the tanks, shielded cables, or tube are usually the cause of problems and didn't know if solid state stuff tended to have other issues. A stuck spring should be easy enough to check if they will let me open up the chassis.

Good tip on the lower input jack. I plugged into the upper thinking it would be the unpadded jack so I'll try the lower jack when I go back to make my final decision.

Oh yeah, why can't I find the literature section? Is it hidden somewhere or am I blind?

[Updated on: Sun, 05 July 2009 11:31]

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11334 is a reply to message #11333]

Sun, 05 July 2009 13:42

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

On the left hand side of the page you will see Main, Literature, web board, classifieds etc. Click on the literature tab then click on the 150/250/500 and it will take you to the catalog that shows the amp your thinking of buying.
The boost jack in the back is a stereo jack that was used to plug in the boost pedal which like a volume pedal that controlled the boost circuit that acted like a wah pedal. It swept through the 7 pre set tones of the boost circuit. Without the boost (wah pedal) you can pre set the tone and volume of the boost and control it with the on/off footswitch or turn it off at the amp if you don't get a switching pedal made up for it.
It isn't a great wah but for 1971 and having all the effects in the amp was pretty cool.
I personally run a outboard processor pedal for all my effects and never worried about any effects that the amp may offer. Kustom amps are great for putting stomp boxes or processor pedals in front of the amp, you will be amazed at how huge of sound you will get compared to using the guitar to amp and effects built into the amp. I run with the big dogs using a single 12 K50 kustom amp with processors between the guitar and amp.
Go ahead and buy it, offer 200.00 and you'll take your chances on fixing the reverb issue, they may just take you up on the offer, since finding a matching blue cabinet might take some time to find one.
As BC said, be warned it won't be your only kustom you buy, you'll be hooked on the sound and more will follow you home.
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11336 is a reply to message #11324]

Sun, 05 July 2009 14:20

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I guess I must have found the forum through a back door and I had never actually been to the main page. I kept hitting the home button and only got the posting forums.

After playing through it again I think that the reverb is working as it should. I think that the solid state 'verb is a little less rich than Fender tube driven reverbs that I'm used to. I ended up getting the head for $238 so I'm pretty happy. I could have gotten a silver K250-2 with the matching cabinet (looked like one speaker had a different silver dust cover than the other) for about $475 but space is a little tight and I'm not working right now so I went for the blue K250-4 alone. Both heads sounded better through the Kustom cabinet than through a 4x12 that was also nearby. I've got two old Fender piggyback cabs and I'll give the amp a workout through those later on tonight.

Is there a parts list/schematic for the wah/boost pedal in case I get bored? I ran into a friend who has a home studio and he has a 5 pin XLR cable that he said I could have so I can cobble a footswitch together eventually.

Thanks again for all the help.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11337 is a reply to message #11336]

Sun, 05 July 2009 14:29

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

One thing, to mention is the K250 heads want a 4 ohm total load, so maybe the 4x12 cabinet is an 8 ohm box, just thinking outloud on that one. www.vintagekustom.com should get you the very start of the website and you can take it from there.
I've used a lot of older peavey footswitch housings to make up foot switches for both the older K200A heads and the K250 heads. Peavey made a metal housing 4 button foot switch for their amps in the 70's and will even do 5 buttons. Cut off the din plug and wire the XLR plug and your in business. Good price on the amp.
Have fun,
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11338 is a reply to message #11324]

Sun, 05 July 2009 20:23

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I didn't think about the impedance mismatch, but I think it was mostly a matter of me liking the vintage speakers and the 2x15 compared to whatever 12 inchers would have been in a modern Krank cabinet.

The Peavey switch is a good tip, but my buddy still has an old Standard or Bass head in his basement that is missing the FS and the last time we checked a used footswitch was going for over $75. I think I can build one for less than that, but I've got time to look.

What kind of voltage goes to the original switch to power the lamps? Are schematics around for the switches?

Thanks.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11339 is a reply to message #11338]

Sun, 05 July 2009 20:45

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

I'm not sure on the voltage, you'd have to measure pin 1 at the head to figure that out. I have a schematic for the footswitch. send me a email to djt@chartermi.net and I'll send it to you. The schematic I have does not have any voltages listed.
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11342 is a reply to message #11324]

Mon, 06 July 2009 06:19

stevem
Messages: 4773
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

The on /off switches have 120 VAC on them, the lamps in each switch have 40 VDC.
Mnay times the foam disc on the reverb lock rots off the end of the lock handle and gets trapped in the pan springs which mutes the verb to one degree or another.
Getting the pan off of the rear wall of the amp can be a real pain with these amps so it will not be a 1/2 hour job like on a Fender, also these amps have a tone control for the verb which is nice and when all is working right thay have just as much verb as my silverface pro reverb.
These are loud amps when they are working right!
My main k250-1 I use for bass thru 2 EVM 15s and I never have to have it up to more than 3 to keep up in a loud band, my other two k250-4 put out a tad less wattage due to all the effects the amps power supply is running, but I can hardly notice any difference but for a slight amount of head room with bass, but nothing with guitar.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11347 is a reply to message #11324]

Mon, 06 July 2009 12:59

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

Thanks for the info, Steve.
Did the footswitch lamps have the same voltage to them as the power and polarity lamps? As near as I can tell from the schematic it looks like there was a 24V diode of some sort for the switch lamps.

The reverb seemed to work well at the store but is tending to feedback a little bit at home. I've got to try moving the head to a different location to see if that changes things. I really haven't had much time to mess with it since bringing it home.

One of the reasons I bought this is that I'm hoping I can use it for bass a little bit so I'm glad to hear that the K250 will probably handle the bass for my needs. I don't play bass very often and don't actually have anything left that works as a bass amp.

What are the odds that the pair of 15's in the cabinet that I passed up would still handle the full power of one of these heads without replacement or reconing? Is there a way to tell what speakers are in that cabinet by looking at the dust covers only, through the grill cloth?

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11349 is a reply to message #11347]

Mon, 06 July 2009 16:25

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

After almost 40 years, it might be hard to know exactly what speakers are in any brand speaker cabinet. Kustom used JBL D130F and D140F speakers, Altec and KEI brand speakers in the 150/250/500 series cabinets. There could even be mixed speakers after this much time. A quick note to make sure the cabinet you passed on is for the 250 series. The 250 series cabinets used a black grill cloth with silver threads, and if you look at the side view of the cabinet it will the the same depth from top to bottom, where the older K200 cabients had a taper from top to bottom when viewed from the side. Kustom also labeled the cabinets jack plate on the 200 series and a metal tag on the back of the cabinet with the model number and speaker. Best way to know for sure is to remove the back, gives you a chance to find all kinds of items that have been stuffed through the port holes and see if the wiring looks correct.
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11350 is a reply to message #11324]

Mon, 06 July 2009 21:32

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I'm guessing they're mixed because the dust covers are different. I'll have to go back and check the model number on the cabinet to see what it originally was supposed to have. I think one is a JBL. Do the JBLs and Altecs hold up better over time than the old Jensens and Oxfords, especially at the power levels of the K250?

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11352 is a reply to message #11350]

Mon, 06 July 2009 21:43

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Again, it's a loaded question as to how much power the speakers will take. JBL speakers have a 4" aluminum dome center and Altec's have a 3" aluminum dust cap. The KEI brand had I guess about a 2 3/4 dome and a hole in the center. Jensen and Oxfords were not used in the 250 series cabinets. Are you planning on driving the speakers with a bass guitar or Guitar? If the speakers are not original to the cabinet, you will want to make sure the impedance of the speakers when wired in parallel will give a 4 ohm load to the amp. After so many years of hard playing even a great speaker might be weak or fail. Working in a music store for several years, I've seen just about everything in cabinets once the back was removed. I just bought a Kustom 2x12 K150 amp a week ago and it had one original Jensen and a remanufactured speaker that was redone at Kustom. Kustom did their own re-coning when they came out with the lifetime warranty on their speakers. If the cabinet has Altec or JBL there will be a kustom logo ink stamp on the frame to show that it was installed at the factory.
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11353 is a reply to message #11324]

Mon, 06 July 2009 21:57

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I know the question was sort of loaded, and I wasn't referring to Jensen or Oxford being in a Kustom from the factory. I just come from Fenders and know that even in the 35-40 watt amps that these speakers are usually tired and it's recommended to replace them before they blow.

The 2x15 has one solid aluminum dust cap and one with a hole in the center. I guess I'm just thinking out loud and trying to talk myself out of possibly going for the K250-2 stack instead, but if I had to pull the speakers out because they would most likely blow due to use (guitar or bass) it would just be an additional expense. Plus I have no idea whether replacements would sound as good or the same. I've been through a lot of 10" experiments with my Fenders Laughing

Laughing

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11355 is a reply to message #11324]

Tue, 07 July 2009 06:01

stevem
Messages: 4773
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Does the 15 incher with the soild aluminum dust cap have a thin stamped steel basket or thick cast frame?

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11357 is a reply to message #11324]

Tue, 07 July 2009 09:35

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I'm not sure. There are 32 screws holding the back on (if I counted correctly) and I wasn't going to ask to remove them unless I was sure I wanted the cabinet.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11359 is a reply to message #11324]

Tue, 07 July 2009 11:48

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

Don,
Are those numbers correct for the reverb tank input and output impedances? 25.6 ohms doesn't seem correct for any reverb tank that I've run across. Do you know what the Accutronics number was for an original tank? I think I'll open this one up and look inside to see if everything looks right. I can get a lot of crashing through the output side, and I can even hear the springs when I plug in a guitar cable, but it doesn't seem to affect the guitar's signal as much as maybe it should. At least not compared to my Fenders.
Jeff.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11362 is a reply to message #11359]

Tue, 07 July 2009 12:13

chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Don's reverb tank numbers were DC resistance figures of the transducer coils and not impedance.

If the springs make noise, but the guitar signal doesn't seem to be effected, then my guess would be either a broken wire to the tank input coil or a problem with the driver circuit. Most common here would be the broken transducer wire or a bad connection at the RCA jack.

As for your footswich lightbulb question, the bulbs were the same ones used inside the power and line reverse switches. They are rated at 28V and are miniature screwbase bulbs. I think the number is GE335? I know that this has been covered a few times here already.

Steve is right in that they are supplied by the 40 vdc bus, but they are limited with a 400 ohm resistor, reducing the voltage down to the correct value.

You could use LEDs with a limiting resistor instead of lamps in your homebrew pedal. This will reduce the current draw on the power supply of the amp as well.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11364 is a reply to message #11324]

Tue, 07 July 2009 12:28

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

Thanks for clarifying that those will be the resistance readings. That makes it easier for me to test. I can check for broken wires on the input side of the pan when I open up the chassis. That's sort of what I figured the next logical choice to look would be. I'm just having a hard time hearing whether it works or not because there is definitely some reverb signal coming through when the reverb is turned on...it just doesn't seem to affect the guitar's signal as much as I would expect.

Thanks for the bulb info, too. LEDs would be much easier than messing with screw based bulbs and sockets. Does the footswitch jack actually put out DC to the switch? It looked like there was a diode/rectifier on the footswitch schematic for converting to DC. I'm not real strong on some of that stuff so I may be wrong.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11366 is a reply to message #11324]

Tue, 07 July 2009 12:45

stevem
Messages: 4773
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

The reverb feeding back is created by poor connections by the RCA cables to the pan, or the effects board.
The aluminum they use for these connectors tarnishes up and the high resistance makes the recovery side of the verb oscilate/ feedback.
Most times just spinning the male end of the cable around while its plugged into the female will clean things off enought to releave the problem and then a light smear of WD40 will keep it up.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11376 is a reply to message #11324]

Tue, 07 July 2009 18:19

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I guess I have to claim a little bit of stupidity here, because I just noticed as I was taking the chassis out of the cabinet that the reverb pot has a pull for high switch on it Embarassed

Embarassed

That's a new one for me. I guess I've had the head sitting too low to read that up to this point. The reverb is a lot stronger with the pot pulled out. Still not quite what I would consider the same as my Fenders, but it could just be the difference between a tube and SS driven circuit.

Since I have the chassis out I cleaned the contacts on the cables because I know that they can cause noise. I think the feedback is simply from placement of the head in front of the cabinet while I'm experimenting.

What is the correct way to remove the pan? Do I take the acorn nuts off of the back or do I try to remove the nuts that are on the chassis interior side? The lower nuts look awful hard to get at from inside. I figure I should probably check the lock/foam etc while I have it opened.

Also, do those caps hold a charge like they do in a tube amp with the high voltages or do they drain when everything is unplugged? I don't need to get zapped.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 July 2009 18:20]

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11379 is a reply to message #11353]

Tue, 07 July 2009 22:05

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Is the K250-2 stack you speak of the same color? You can always work a deal for the K250-4 chassis and have them swap out the K250-2 and get the head you want with the cabinet. One thing to keep in mind, Kustom amps went through a period of no one wanting them. At least in my part of the country. At one time you couldn't hardly give the T&R amps away. So it may be the amp and cabinet sat dormate for a number of years without any playing time on the speakers. It sounds like from your last post that it may have one JBL or Altec and one KEI speaker with the small hole in the aluminum dust cap. I don't know what the asking price of the cabinet is or if it can be bought with a head, but they don't make kustom cabinets anymore so if it is in good shape, it's not like you can just order one. I personally would grab the 250 head and cabinet without all the effects than buy the other head with the effects. Any outboard effects will still out sound the internal effects of that era amp.
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11386 is a reply to message #11324]

Wed, 08 July 2009 10:24

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

The stack is silver so it wouldn't match the K250-4 head. I don't know how silver ranks in the "desirable" category but I was starting to think along the same lines about not being able to find a cabinet down the road if I ever wanted one. My favorite effects are actually the vibrato and trem and I could live without the fuzz. I did think that the notched wah settings might be usable on the K250-4, though.

I'll have to go back and look at the stack even though this isn't the best time for me to be spending any money on gear.

I remember the days of not being able to give Kustoms away. When I first started looking for an amp my grandpa would bring things home from work that other people were trying to sell for me to tryout. I wanted nothing to do with the black T&R combos or the Traynor combos that he brought over to the house. I wanted a Fender or a Peavey. These two Kustoms were the first ones I've ever plugged in since about 1977.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11387 is a reply to message #11386]

Wed, 08 July 2009 12:06

chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Milo:
The pull switch on the reverb increases the drive to the tank, for a stronger reverb signal. If the reverb still seems weak, you may still have a tank problem. The only way that I know of removing the tank is by loosening the acorn nuts on the back panel. Sometimes they are rusted in place and will not be easy to get loose. If they are rusted, be careful not to use too much force as the rubber standoffs can tear or crack, as they do dry out and harden with age.

There are 40 volts dc on the filter caps. The voltage will bleed off fairly quickly as the pilot lamps will act like bleeder resistors across the filter caps.

I don't know how "desirable" Silver is to you, but you could always swap the cases on the two heads, and sell off the head that you don't want.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11389 is a reply to message #11387]

Wed, 08 July 2009 13:00

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

Thanks chicagobill.
40V DC is a far cry from the 400+ that my Fenders store for awhile.

This head seems really clean inside and doesn't show any signs of rust or anything so I think I may be able to get the acorn nuts off. I'm thinking that there are no issues with the reverb at this point...at least I know that if I had noticed the pull pot earlier I wouldn't have questioned the function of the tank. It was when the pot was pushed in that I was wondering if the amp shouldn't have stronger reverb. Right now I've got an old Princeton Reverb, a Vibrolux Reverb, a '64 Fender Reverb Unit, and I've built a Weber Revibe unit so I'm comparing to some of the more highly regarded reverbs around.

Since I have the chassis opened up I may still try to remove the tank just to check the foam and everything inside that has been mentioned. If an acorn nut is stubborn I'll just put it back together. I cleaned all of the contacts for the cables.

Color really didn't/doesn't mean too much to me, I'm just leaning a lot more toward getting a correct cabinet while it is still around. It would be a no-brainer if I was working right now, but having a tool design background/career isn't in a lot of demand right at the moment. Originally I figured the extra effects would be cool and the cost of the head was less anyway. Now I'm thinking that my cabinets can't handle 125 watts and I would be out just as much money to upgrade a pair of 12's as I would to buy the correct 2x15, plus the Kustom cabinet should handle an occasional bass better.

I was a little afraid to try the Kustom out when I first saw them in case I did like them, and then I let curiosity get the better of me. I really did expect them to just sound more or less "okay" and to walk away with my curiosity satisfied and knowing that I didn't need to look around for one Laughing

Laughing

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11395 is a reply to message #11389]

Wed, 08 July 2009 22:08

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

I was a tool and die maker for 25 years here in Michigan and you can't buy a job anymore in that field. If I understand everything, there are two heads, one in blue that is the model 4 and a silver head and matching 2x15 cabinet with a model 2 chassis in the silver. I'd go for the matching head and cabinet, and I wouldn't be afraid to ask to have the back removed to see what speakers are really in the cabinet. 30+ years and mis matched dust caps, you might be getting a speaker that can either be original or a cheap replacement, which will help determine a price to offer the seller. I'd go for head and cabinet, since we are talking colors rather than black finding a matching cabinet in the same color and the same series might be hard to find down the road. The older K200 2x15 cabinets are not as deep at the top of the cabinet so placing a K250 on a K200 cabinet the amp will hang off the back.
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11400 is a reply to message #11324]

Thu, 09 July 2009 00:25

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

You're correct, about jobs and about the two Kustoms. I've got 24 years of tool design experience and if I can find a place that is hiring they'll grab a kid who has one year in the business as long as it is in the software that they are using, rather than spend a few weeks training me and gaining the additional experience.

I originally grabbed the blue series 4 head thinking I would save some money and not have to worry about the space that the cabinet would take up. The silver stack is a K250-2 with a matching 2x15 cabinet that has at least had a three-prong cord installed (not sure about any other service/repairs). I'm sure that the cabinet is correct as far as the size goes and I can tell that the speakers are mismatched through the grill cloth.

In hindsight, it may be best to try to scrape up the additional cash to buy the complete stack since (A) it matches and (B) it is more likely to handle the power than any cabinet I already own. I'll probably never need the full power of the K250 for my guitars but to run the bass through it on occasion I'd have to upgrade the cabinets I have at home. I'll go back to see what the model number is on the cabinet at least to see what speakers should have come in it originally. I would have to look inside to make a final decision.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11404 is a reply to message #11400]

Thu, 09 July 2009 22:23

pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

You can always have them swap out the chassis's and install the model 4 head into the silver case and then they would have a blue K250-2 head to sell as a stand alone amp, if the extra toys on the model 4 head still excite you. The speakers that are in the cabinet now, if they sound good with guitar and bass, I'd leave them for now. Upgrading speakers sounds like it will break the bank right now. Better to have a matched cabinet and head than to have a head and hook it to a cabinet that might need speaker upgrading anyway. I just took a pair of 15" Sunn speakers to my local speaker shop. 60.00 each to have them rebuilt.
Don

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11405 is a reply to message #11324]

Fri, 10 July 2009 06:20

stevem
Messages: 4773
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Even with my big mitts I can stick my hand into the speaker cabinet port tubes which will let narrow down what speakers are in the cab.
I you feel that the basket of the speraker frame is thin steel and not a 3/4" thick casting, then they are not a JBL, or a ALTEC driver. If you continue to reach around to the rear magnet platform of the speaker and feel a big square magnet assy then they are CTS, KEI/eminence, or jensen drivers.
CTS drivers in Kustoms where bass drivers and have no silver dome and no ribs on the grill cloth side of the cone, The top of the line Jensen C15L drivers will also not have the chrome dome but will have ribs on the cone.
The KEI/Eminence drivers will have the chrome dome and the cone ribs,and as stated, all of these drivers will have a square magnet.
Late 70s Kustom Kasino line of amps went with the eminence speakers witha round magnet.
If you know someome who in into auto repair work they have a telescoping type mirror to lend you to peek into the cabinet.

The reverb pan in any kustom will not feedback when placed close to a speaker, if you care to loosen the cap clamps on the power filters and unhook the wires( make a chart of how they go first) you can use a 1/4" driver socket set or a nut driver to drop off the pan nuts from the inside of the amp, as I really thing you need to do a check up on the inside of that pan!

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11451 is a reply to message #11324]

Thu, 23 July 2009 21:35

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

It took a little while to get back to check out the stack but I was able to look at the silver K250-2 stack today. I only had a few minutes but I did poke my hands through the ports to check the speaker frames (forgot about checking the magnets). The speaker with the hole in the chrome dome definitely had a stamped steel frame, and it sure felt like the other one with the solid chrome center dust cap also had a stamped frame. It didn't feel like it had the cast ribs of a JBL. I had wanted to try running a bass through it to see if the speakers sounded like they were working correctly with something other than a guitar but my 5 year old niece was with me and it got a little hectic trying to keep her hands out of the ports and to check the amp out more.

Were there any stamped frame speakers used as OEM in these Kustoms that had a solid (no hole in the middle) chrome dust cap? I know that Weber makes them now. This head has had a three-prong cord installed so it may have been used more often and could possibly have a relatively new speaker in it. If the speakers check out fine I'll probably try to scrape up the additional cash to grab the full stack in place of the K250-4 head.

Thanks.

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Re: Thinking about buying my first Kustom [message #11474 is a reply to message #11451]

Wed, 29 July 2009 19:26

milo
Messages: 44
Registered: July 2009

Member

I think I'm going to exchange the K250-4 head back and get the stack instead. It makes more sense to me to scrape together the extra money and get the whole package while I have a chance. I ran a bass through the rig since that's part of my "justification" and everything seemed to work/sound fine. Everything was nice and solid with no rattles or farty sounding speakers at the volumes I tested it. I just need to negotiate a price.

I guess I have two final questions about the speakers and cabinet. Were the original 2x15 cabs with KEI/Eminence speakers capable of handling a bass through the K250 head at moderate volume levels? The amp will see mostly guitar use, but if and when I need to play bass outside of the house it's usually a small place with a drummer and maybe two guitars running Deluxe Reverbs clean so we aren't terribly loud.

Also, by stuffing my hand through the ports the speakers appear to be identical. They both have stamped steel frames that feel like they have the same size and shape stampings. They both have square magnets and both have ribbed cones. The only difference I can make out without taking off the back is that one of the speakers has what appears to be a very slightly larger dust cap without the center hole. Could this just be a later KEI speaker?

One other thing I noticed is that the K250-4 had a pull pot on the reverb but the K250-2 doesn't. Was this something that changed based on the year or was the pull pot unique to the -4 model?

Thanks again for answering all the questions.

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