Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29580] |
Sun, 01 June 2025 16:08  |
BobW
Messages: 28 Registered: December 2019
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Junior Member |
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Hello, I am having difficulty locating clear/printable schematics of an early model 4-150-1 consisting of the following boards:
- Ross PC 602 3 transistor board that connects to a chassis mounted T0-3 SK3297. I assume this is a regulator board?
- Ross PC 702 power board has 7 transistors total on board total and drive 4 Chassis mounted T0-3s.
Board transistors identified as: 2-40406(rca), 1-40408(rca), and 4 drivers (2-40409(rca) and2-40410(rca).
Each of the 4 board drivers connect to their chassis mounted T0-3s. Unfortunately the chassis mounted T0-3s are worn with no identified markings.
- Ross PC 102 preamp board (located, just need a clear/printable.)
There seems to be a lot of overlapping of similar designs on the models over the years, and that is where my confusion is on the PC 702 board design. Power Amp PC5033 is very similar, however the PC5033 only drives 2 external T0-3s not 4 as on this early 702 board. Any help identifying a correct schematic is appreciated.
BobW
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29581 is a reply to message #29580] |
Mon, 02 June 2025 06:59   |
stevem
Messages: 4848 Registered: June 2004 Location: NY
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Senior Member |
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Hello and welcome.
All the schematics you ask for are in our technical section under the listing for PC boards.
The 602 board I am not sure is there, but I thought I have seen it there.
Anyway I will look thru what I have at home later for you.
One thing is certain though, you are not working on a k150 model amp because with those PC numbers it’s a K 200 model.
All of the chassis mounted T03 type transistors in these amps where originally RCA 36892, these are now the common 2N3055.
These RCA transistors were very closely matched so as to produce even upper and lower signwave half’s and max wattage.
A pc5033 board which is in a K150 is only a 75 watt amp so it only uses two chassis mounted output transistors and its preamps run on a plus and minus 12 volts regulated by Zener diodes.
Note that until I have approved 5 of your post they will not when you make them automatically hi up to this board.
[Updated on: Mon, 02 June 2025 07:01] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29608 is a reply to message #29580] |
Mon, 16 June 2025 20:16   |
chicagobill
Messages: 2023 Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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Bob- What does the front panel of this amp look like, rear painted black plexiglass, anodized black aluminum? Are there fuse holders or circuit breakers on the front panel?
You mention regulation on the power amp board. What do you mean by this? There are low voltage regulators on the power amp board in later versions, but not on earlier ones.
In most of Kustom voltage regulator boards they will use a transistor as a two lead Zener diode. This may explain the lead with no trace.
Even though you have what seem to be normal PC board numbers, they don't seem to align with any of the usual versions of these boards. You may have a very early version of a K200-A amp, that used a very different output pc board and amp circuit. I remember seeing one a long time ago and I have notes about them written down somewhere. That power amp circuit used different driver transistors (not 40409/40410) and had no current limiting on the output transistors.
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29611 is a reply to message #29580] |
Wed, 18 June 2025 15:42   |
chicagobill
Messages: 2023 Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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I think that I have figured out what Bob is working on, an anodized front circuit breaker K200 head.
I pulled out the one that I have and it contains the 7 transistor PC703 board and the 3 transistor PC602 positive regulator board.
I have never seen schematics for these boards. The power amp board appears to be the same as the K200A power amp but without the two current limiter transistors and related resistors.
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29612 is a reply to message #29611] |
Wed, 18 June 2025 21:23   |
BobW
Messages: 28 Registered: December 2019
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Junior Member |
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chicagobill,
You are correct. This is a K200 head that has a mis-stamped chassis as 4-15C-1, but is really a K200 head as stevem suggested earlier. I was initially asking about other boards simply because of similarity and hopefully a clearer schematic. Seems to be a moot point now, with the following progress:
- Both 102 boards now updated with new electrolytics w/ at least a 50V rating (what I had on hand).
- Both 102s individually tested at +24V w/ signal generator input. Approx. 2.5V Pk output.
- Both Mallory main filters, 3500uF/50V, w/ESRs slightly elevated, but med. Rload tested good at up to +/- 45v. Approx. 3 hr. no issues.
702 board - Replaced all bad caps now at least 50V rating. Not powered up yet, but in process of replacing way out of tolerance carbon comp resistors, and replaced bad Q704, NPN RCA40409. Was able to remove from heatsink and reinstall a 2N3053 into heatsink w a bit of solder. hfe now at a good 151.
I may abandon the oddball 602 board (due to no info) and use a Peavey +24 regulator typically used on their 260 Series power amps to provide a stable preamp power.
It seems I may have enough info to continue forward. Any comments welcomed!
Thank You chicagobill and stevem!
BobW
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29615 is a reply to message #29580] |
Wed, 18 June 2025 22:34   |
chicagobill
Messages: 2023 Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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Bob, if you refer to the pc 502 schematic for the K400 amp you will find a +24 volt regulator circuit that is the updated replacement for the one that is in your amp. The only difference is that resistor R507 and transistor Q504 were added later.
If you check, you will see that the PC602 board that you have is the exact circuit in the above schematic without the added R507 and Q504.
The same is true regarding the power amp board in your amp, it is the same as the PC702 board from the K400 series amp, with a few modifications. Other than the added current limiter circuit the rest of the design is exactly the same.
And I think that the model number is correct for that amp as it probably came with two 2-15 speaker cabs loaded with CTS speakers. Maybe Pleat can add some insight regarding the model number.
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29618 is a reply to message #29587] |
Thu, 19 June 2025 13:44   |
BobW
Messages: 28 Registered: December 2019
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Junior Member |
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BobW wrote on Mon, 02 June 2025 16:32Stevem, thanks for the reply. I agree with your post and only mentioned the K150 because the board was pulled from a chassis marked as 4-150-1, serial # 15623. The chassis also has 5 chassis mounted T0-3s, of which 4 are driven as shown below.
I haven't pulled anything yet, but 4 of the T0-3 drivers are driven as below:
RCA 40409 RCA 40409 RCA 40410 RCA 40410
I I I I
T0-3 T0-3 T0-3 T0-3
I plan to beta test all transistors, before any low voltage test since this board and the rest of the chassis had been idle for years.
Fwiw, I haven't seen the 40409s and their heatsinks since restoring an old Standel.
The thermal diode is also broken, so I may try locating a thermal diode from a Peavey heatsink.
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29632 is a reply to message #29580] |
Tue, 24 June 2025 13:06   |
chicagobill
Messages: 2023 Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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The Peavey circuits were developed after the Ross designs. In fact Hartley has stated that Bud Ross was helpful when he was building the Peavey brand.
The additional two transistors on the power amp board are ther to limit the current when the amp is driven hard. The transistors monitor the voltage across the ballast transistor of the output transistors and when it exceeds a predetermined limit, it reduced the signal to the driver stage transistor.
Good luck with the modifications.
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29652 is a reply to message #29632] |
Thu, 03 July 2025 21:41  |
BobW
Messages: 28 Registered: December 2019
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Junior Member |
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Thanks Chicago Bill.
The mods to a Peavey 260 output were completed and the back panel was modded to mount the 260 board. The customer is happy and so am I.
Again, Thanks to all who provided support/suggestions.
FWI, Hartley's early 'original' designs were closely based on the early Motorola engineering data books. Am sure also that Ross provided suggestions to Hartley as well.
Collaboration is a wonderful thing and am lucky to have worked with great people throughout the times.
BobW
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