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Home » VintageKustom.com » Repairing Kustom Amps » Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards (Kustom 1-150-1 restore project)
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Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29580] Sun, 01 June 2025 16:08 Go to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Registered: December 2019
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Hello, I am having difficulty locating clear/printable schematics of an early model 4-150-1 consisting of the following boards:

- Ross PC 602 3 transistor board that connects to a chassis mounted T0-3 SK3297.  I assume this is a regulator board?

- Ross PC 702 power board has 7 transistors total on board total and drive 4 Chassis mounted T0-3s.
    Board transistors identified as: 2-40406(rca), 1-40408(rca), and 4 drivers (2-40409(rca) and2-40410(rca).  
    Each of the 4 board drivers connect to their chassis mounted T0-3s. Unfortunately the chassis mounted T0-3s are worn with no identified markings.

- Ross PC 102 preamp board (located, just need a clear/printable.)


There seems to be a lot of overlapping of similar designs on the models over the years, and that is where my confusion is on the PC 702 board design. Power Amp PC5033 is very similar, however the PC5033 only drives 2 external T0-3s not 4 as on this early 702 board.   Any help identifying a correct schematic is appreciated.

BobW



Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29581 is a reply to message #29580] Mon, 02 June 2025 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Hello and welcome.

All the schematics you ask for are in our technical section under the listing  for PC boards.
The 602 board I am not sure is there, but I thought I have seen it there.

Anyway I will look thru what I have at home later for you.
One thing is certain though, you are not working on a k150 model amp because with those PC numbers it’s a K 200 model.

All of the chassis mounted T03 type transistors in these amps where originally RCA 36892, these are now the common  2N3055.
These RCA transistors were very closely matched so as to produce even upper and lower signwave half’s and max wattage.

A pc5033 board which is in a K150 is only a 75 watt amp so it only uses two chassis mounted output transistors and its preamps run on a plus and minus 12 volts regulated by Zener diodes.

Note that until I have approved 5 of your post they will not when you make them automatically hi up to this board.

[Updated on: Mon, 02 June 2025 07:01]

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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29582 is a reply to message #29580] Mon, 02 June 2025 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
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Go to the technical section and look at the schematics for the K400 amps.

The 602 board is the negative regulator board, which normally is only used on A series amps with effects switching.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29583 is a reply to message #29580] Mon, 02 June 2025 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Also Bob the amp you are working is a K200A-2.

Unfortunately our site’s tech section does not differentiate between the K200, the K200A-1 nor the K200A-2 like you have .
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29587 is a reply to message #29581] Mon, 02 June 2025 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Stevem, thanks for the reply. I agree with your post and only mentioned the K150 because the board was pulled from a chassis marked as 4-150-1, serial # 15623. The chassis also has 5 chassis mounted T0-3s, of which 4 are driven as shown below.  

I haven't pulled anything yet, but 4 of the T0-3 drivers are driven as below:

  RCA 40409   RCA 40409   RCA 40409   RCA 40409  
       I           I           I           I
     T0-3         T0-3        T0-3       T0-3  

I plan to beta test all transistors, before any low voltage test since this board and the rest of the chassis had been idle for years.
Fwiw, I haven't seen the 40409s and their heatsinks since restoring an old Standel.

The thermal diode is also broken, so I may try locating a thermal diode from a Peavey heatsink.  
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29588 is a reply to message #29582] Mon, 02 June 2025 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Thanks chicagobill.  This amp has no effects, just the standard V, T, B and bright switch.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29589 is a reply to message #29583] Mon, 02 June 2025 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Thanks for the update stevem.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29590 is a reply to message #29581] Mon, 02 June 2025 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Great info, thanks again stevem!
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29591 is a reply to message #29587] Mon, 02 June 2025 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Yes, amps from this model line that do not have effects will only have one regulator board and only five T03s on the rear of the chassis.

That 1N3754 thermal bias diode can still be had, in fact there’s one on eBay right now.

For now you can just slap a common 1N4007 in there when the time comes to see if the amp works.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29592 is a reply to message #29591] Tue, 03 June 2025 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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My last post was incorrect. The 4 output drivers were not all RCA 40409s.  There are 2 40409 and 2 40410s.     
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29593 is a reply to message #29580] Tue, 03 June 2025 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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All, Thanks for the great replies and support. I now have all the schematics needed.  

I will report back my findings after testing the usual stuff: transistor betas, electrolytics, power supply, current draw, waveforms and etc.  This amp had been idle for many many years, but will eventually be up and running. Being a vintage amp, it's worth my time and effort.  
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29594 is a reply to message #29580] Wed, 04 June 2025 05:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Yes there are NPN and PNP drivers.

Note that with todays ac wall voltage the preamp regulator voltage will be a bit higher then the schematic possibly.

Also note that the way these preamp regulator circuits are set up is that the negative voltage will track the positive voltage.

This means that if the positive  regulator has an issue and is putting out a voltage that is way off, so will the negative regulator, but not as bad.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 June 2025 05:54]

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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29597 is a reply to message #29594] Thu, 05 June 2025 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Here's an update on the K200 A-2 / 102 preamp boards.
After testing the ESRs, then replacing the bad caps with newer caps at a 50V rating from the stock I had on hand, they were bench tested using my bench power supply and Oscope. The transistors were previously beta tested and had no issues.  A little potentiometer cleaner is that was needed to complete the Preamp boards.

The original T0-3 Transistors have also been beta tested on the 702 board, but have since found closely matched 2N3055 replacements.  Caps still need to be tested and driver transistors as well.

I may prefer to have independent regulation on the + and - 34V sources. Most likely because I cannot successfully enlarge any of the drawings including the K200A-2. Print outs are either blocked or out of focus on the L and right sides of the drawing, making it unable to read most of the schematic.

It may be an printing issue on my side.  What is the procedure that most are able to read the schematics after printing?  Any help is greatly appreciated.

BobW   
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematics for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29598 is a reply to message #29597] Wed, 11 June 2025 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Does a schematic for the ROSS PC 702 exist?  
Trying to correlate and understand the difference between the Ross PC 702 vs the Series K400, Model 1 PC702, and their voltage regulation methods.

The Ross PC 702 has 7 transistors on board, and the K400 amplifier board PC702 had 9 on board transistors. Both boards use 4 transistors to drive their 4 chassis mounted 2N3055s.  Their regulation methods are different.

Why does the K400 PC702 require 6 transistors to drive the 4 chassis mounted 2N3055s,
where the ROSS PC 702 only uses 3 transistors to drive it's 4 chassis mounted 2N3055s?
This why I would like the ROSS PC 702 schematic.

To confound the issue the ROSS PC 602 3 transistor board has no trace connected to the Collector of PNP 2N3638?

Any clarification is appreciated.

Ross PC 702 progress so far:  
- All 6 T03s replaced with matched 2N3055s,
- New resistors on order - approx. 40% of the carbon comp resistors were way out of tolerance.
 to be replaced with carbon film.
- 3 regulator transistors measured the following betas NPNs 34, 38  PNP 217

I may have to trace out the schematic to understand the 3 transistors regulator circuit.

BobW
      
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematics for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29599 is a reply to message #29598] Wed, 11 June 2025 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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I can continue moving forward with the ROSS PC 702 if I could download PC 002-5029-00.

The PP 002-5029-00 board details the missing info needed to move forward with the ROSS PC 702.

How can I download the 002-5029-00 board schematic?

BobW
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29603 is a reply to message #29594] Thu, 12 June 2025 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Stevem,  I understand about the increase in 110 to now 120 vac, fwiw, I am a retired EE and just need help with a hard copy of the schematics.  Having repaired and documented all amps since the mid 70s, but never encountered a Kustom amp before.  Most all were tube amps.  If I can somehow acquire a copy of the PC5065, to place at my bench, then I can certainly repair/restore this amp.  The PC5065 is one of the clearest schematics in your files.

Any help is appreciated.

Best Regards,
BobW
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29608 is a reply to message #29580] Mon, 16 June 2025 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
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Registered: April 2003
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Bob- What does the front panel of this amp look like, rear painted black plexiglass, anodized black aluminum? Are there fuse holders or circuit breakers on the front panel?

You mention regulation on the power amp board. What do you mean by this? There are low voltage regulators on the power amp board in later versions, but not on earlier ones.

In most of Kustom voltage regulator boards they will use a transistor as a two lead Zener diode. This may explain the lead with no trace.

Even though you have what seem to be normal PC board numbers, they don't seem to align with any of the usual versions of these boards. You may have a very early version of a K200-A amp, that used a very different output pc board and amp circuit. I remember seeing one a long time ago and I have notes about them written down somewhere. That power amp circuit used different driver transistors (not 40409/40410) and had no current limiting on the output transistors.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29609 is a reply to message #29580] Tue, 17 June 2025 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Bob you keep asking about a PC5065 board which is part of a late 1971 amp, and that driver /  output board is vastly different then what would be original in the amp you are working on.

These  late 1971 amps only used 4 TO3  type transistors because they regulated the 12 volt positive and negative to the preamp section with Zener diodes .

Please take the time to take some good clear photos of the chassis and the amps internals and send it to my email so I can see what you’re dealing with.
Also if you can get the production date code off the PT and or one of the pots .
The pots should be CTS brand and start with a 137- then 4 more digest.
smag25ra5@yahoo.com.

Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29611 is a reply to message #29580] Wed, 18 June 2025 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
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I think that I have figured out what Bob is working on, an anodized front circuit breaker K200 head.

I pulled out the one that I have and it contains the 7 transistor PC703 board and the 3 transistor PC602 positive regulator board.

I have never seen schematics for these boards. The power amp board appears to be the same as the K200A power amp but without the two current limiter transistors and related resistors.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29612 is a reply to message #29611] Wed, 18 June 2025 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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chicagobill,

You are correct.  This is a K200 head that has a mis-stamped chassis as 4-15C-1, but is really a K200 head as stevem suggested earlier.  I was initially asking about other boards simply because of similarity and hopefully a clearer schematic. Seems to be a moot point now, with the following progress:

- Both 102 boards now updated with new electrolytics w/ at least a 50V rating (what I had on hand).  
- Both 102s individually tested at +24V w/ signal generator input.  Approx. 2.5V Pk output.
- Both Mallory main filters, 3500uF/50V, w/ESRs slightly elevated, but med. Rload tested good at up to +/- 45v.  Approx. 3 hr. no issues.  

702 board - Replaced all bad caps now at least 50V rating.   Not powered up yet, but in process of replacing way out of tolerance carbon comp resistors, and replaced bad Q704, NPN RCA40409. Was able to remove from heatsink and reinstall a 2N3053 into heatsink w a bit of solder. hfe now at a good 151.

I may abandon the oddball 602 board (due to no info) and use a Peavey +24 regulator typically used on their 260 Series power amps to provide a stable preamp power.

It seems I may have enough info to continue forward.  Any comments welcomed!

Thank You chicagobill and stevem!

BobW


  
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29613 is a reply to message #29580] Wed, 18 June 2025 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Chicagobill,

I forgot to reply to your questions:

What does the front panel of this amp look like? -Black Plexiglass, w/ rear anodized black aluminum.

The front panel has 2 circuit breakers.  1 for power, 1 for speaker load and a pilot lamp.

Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29614 is a reply to message #29609] Wed, 18 June 2025 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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stevem,  I will reply back very soon, just trying to complete/replace the out of tolerance carbon comps on the 702 board. The onw w/ only 7 onboard transistors.

BobW
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29615 is a reply to message #29580] Wed, 18 June 2025 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
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Registered: April 2003
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Bob, if you refer to the pc 502 schematic for the K400 amp you will find a +24 volt regulator circuit that is the updated replacement for the one that is in your amp. The only difference is that resistor R507 and transistor Q504 were added later.

If you check, you will see that the PC602 board that you have is the exact circuit in the above schematic without the added R507 and Q504.

The same is true regarding the power amp board in your amp, it is the same as the PC702 board from the K400 series amp, with a few modifications. Other than the added current limiter circuit the rest of the design is exactly the same.

And I think that the model number is correct for that amp as it probably came with two 2-15 speaker cabs loaded with CTS speakers. Maybe Pleat can add some insight regarding the model number.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29616 is a reply to message #29580] Thu, 19 June 2025 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Bob if you pm me your email address I will  send you the 602 schedule.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29617 is a reply to message #29616] Thu, 19 June 2025 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Thanks! email sent

[Updated on: Thu, 19 June 2025 13:34]

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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29618 is a reply to message #29587] Thu, 19 June 2025 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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BobW wrote on Mon, 02 June 2025 16:32
Stevem, thanks for the reply. I agree with your post and only mentioned the K150 because the board was pulled from a chassis marked as 4-150-1, serial # 15623. The chassis also has 5 chassis mounted T0-3s, of which 4 are driven as shown below.  

I haven't pulled anything yet, but 4 of the T0-3 drivers are driven as below:

  RCA 40409   RCA 40409   RCA 40410   RCA 40410  
       I           I           I           I
     T0-3         T0-3        T0-3       T0-3  

I plan to beta test all transistors, before any low voltage test since this board and the rest of the chassis had been idle for years.
Fwiw, I haven't seen the 40409s and their heatsinks since restoring an old Standel.

The thermal diode is also broken, so I may try locating a thermal diode from a Peavey heatsink.  
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29619 is a reply to message #29592] Thu, 19 June 2025 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29620 is a reply to message #29580] Thu, 19 June 2025 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
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Steve-Bob
He needs to use the PC502 positive regulator schematic from a K200A to match his PC602 board.

All of the boards in this amp are marked with numbers that do not correctly match any of the later versions.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29621 is a reply to message #29592] Thu, 19 June 2025 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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BobW wrote on Tue, 03 June 2025 01:09
My last post was incorrect. The 4 output drivers are 2 40409 and 2 40410s.     
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29622 is a reply to message #29597] Thu, 19 June 2025 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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BobW wrote on Thu, 05 June 2025 22:26
Here's an update on the K200 A-2 / 102 preamp boards.
After testing the ESRs, then replacing the bad caps with newer caps at a 50V rating from the stock I had on hand, they were bench tested using my bench power supply and Oscope. The transistors were previously beta tested and had no issues.  A little potentiometer cleaner is that was needed to complete the Preamp boards.

The original T0-3 Transistors have also been beta tested on the 702 board, but have since found closely matched 2N3055 replacements.  Caps still need to be tested and driver transistors as well.

I may prefer to have independent regulation on the + and - 34V sources. Most likely because I cannot successfully enlarge any of the drawings including the K200A-2. Print outs are either blocked or out of focus on the L and right sides of the drawing, making it unable to read most of the schematic.

It may be an printing issue on my side.  

BobW   
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematics for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29623 is a reply to message #29599] Thu, 19 June 2025 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29624 is a reply to message #29621] Thu, 19 June 2025 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29625 is a reply to message #29620] Thu, 19 June 2025 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Steve and Bill

I downloaded the regulator and may have enough room to add the additional components to the old 502 board.  Thank You!
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29626 is a reply to message #29615] Fri, 20 June 2025 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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I still need a suitable or similar ROSS PC 702 schematic that has 7 onboard transistors for driving 4 output transistors.   All I have found so far are the typical 9 onboard transistor models with various part numbers.

Any help is appreciated.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29627 is a reply to message #29616] Fri, 20 June 2025 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Stevem,

A reply was sent to your email.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29628 is a reply to message #29580] Sat, 21 June 2025 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Bob I have never seen a schematic for an early 702 board like your dealing with, but if all the semiconductors, caps and emitter resistors associated with it are good then your golden as long as your two power supply rails are good.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29630 is a reply to message #29628] Sat, 21 June 2025 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Steve,

I plan to install the additional 2 transistors to the 702 board to match the Series K400 Model 1 PC702.

Not sure of the function of the additional Q704, Q705 and their diodes, but matching the schematic should work.

Also will modify the Ross PC 602 regulator to a 4 transistor regulator.

Am hopeful of the results, and will reply back.

Thank you and chicagobill for your suggestions.

BobW
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29631 is a reply to message #29630] Mon, 23 June 2025 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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All,

I have decided to abandon the Ross 702 and 602 boards and replace them with a well known and fully documented Peavey 260. The early 702 board does not predate the Peavey 260 design, but it is very similar and may account for the reason why the Ross schematic is not available.  A possible copy infringement on an early Peavey design.

I appreciate all the suggestions and help, on this project but have scrapped the Ross board for a better design.   
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29632 is a reply to message #29580] Tue, 24 June 2025 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
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The Peavey circuits were developed after the Ross designs. In fact Hartley has stated that Bud Ross was helpful when he was building the Peavey brand.

The additional two transistors on the power amp board are ther to limit the current when the amp is driven hard. The transistors monitor the voltage across the ballast transistor of the output transistors and when it exceeds a predetermined limit, it reduced the signal to the driver stage transistor.

Good luck with the modifications.
Re: Help identifying clear and correct schematicss for the 702, 602 and 102 boards [message #29652 is a reply to message #29632] Thu, 03 July 2025 21:41 Go to previous message
BobW is currently offline  BobW
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Thanks Chicago Bill.

The mods to a Peavey 260 output were completed and the back panel was modded to mount the 260 board.  The customer is happy and so am I.

Again, Thanks to all who provided support/suggestions.

FWI, Hartley's early 'original' designs were closely based on the early Motorola engineering data books. Am sure also that Ross provided suggestions to Hartley as well.  

Collaboration is a wonderful thing and am lucky to have worked with great people throughout the times.

BobW
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